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Author Topic: Tuning projects 3.0TFSI Stage 1 SIMOS 8.4  (Read 96963 times)
jugu
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« Reply #135 on: October 12, 2021, 01:18:40 PM »

Bill, thank you very much for your helpful answer and your advices. My Mini R56 got already a turbo - the old one R50 was the one with a supercharger.
I got the Simos 8.5 FR and had some looks in it. Will definitive study it much more. But i have got to say that the Bosch Med17 and EDC17 FR were better documentated and written, compared to the Simos FR - but of course it will work. I am happy that i have a FR i can look into.

I analyzed the changed maps in the currenta Stage 1 map. This are the maps (if interesting for someone:

- Higher Boost / Air flow -> Supercharger basic volume flow (was increased highly)
- Higher Air mass -> Maximum intake air of the engine at standardized ambient pressure for different valve lifts
- Lambda -> Lambda full load enrichment, Basic map for LAMB_SP_TQ, Basic lambda for the different engine operating point for the exchaus gas temperature model calibration
- Pressure -> Maximum intake manifold pressure for MAF_SP limitation, Limitation of PQ_SCHA, Max. pressure up throttle at standard conditions
- Changed Limit-Maps -> Factor to consider limitations for tia, Maximum allowed torque at clutch due to torque limitation depending on gear ratio by AT, Maximum allowed torque at clutch for twin clutch transmission, Maximum allowed torque at clutch in case of DROF, Torque limitation in case of error of oil pump high pressure stage, Static torque limitation for TCU LIH

Some other changes:
- VMAX off -> Threshold of vehicle speed limitation, Maximal vehicle speed for cruise activation
- Higher engine speed RPM -> Dynamic engine speed limit, Engine speed limit depending on oil temperature, Engine speed limit in case of CRK error (the both last i don't like, because this are useful engine protection limits - will change it)
- Ignition -> Basic Minimum ignition angle
- Higher exhaust temps -> Basic engine out exhaust gas temperatur for reference conditions, Basic engine out exhaust gas temperature for reference conditions
- Fuel pressure -> Fuel pressure setpoint for homogenous engine operation (just marginal increased - for me not logical in a stage 1 map)

I wanted to know what the max. reachable boost level with the standard pully is. I reach currently ~2000 mbar. If for example 2100 mbar is possible, like someone mentioned, then I would know that i can  reduce some more bleed off by modifying the appropriate torque and airflow limiting maps (like mentioned by Bill). Like this i would have a target to reach. I tried to log the bypass valve with the VCDS Value "Kompressorregelklappe: PWM Ansteuerung" in order to find out if a bleed is still going on, but it seems to be the wrong value.

Jürgen
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 01:27:51 PM by jugu » Logged
garagebuilt
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« Reply #136 on: October 12, 2021, 02:12:41 PM »

Bill, thank you very much for your helpful answer and your advices. My Mini R56 got already a turbo - the old one R50 was the one with a supercharger.
I got the Simos 8.5 FR and had some looks in it. Will definitive study it much more. But i have got to say that the Bosch Med17 and EDC17 FR were better documentated and written, compared to the Simos FR - but of course it will work. I am happy that i have a FR i can look into.

I analyzed the changed maps in the currenta Stage 1 map. This are the maps (if interesting for someone:

- Higher Boost / Air flow -> Supercharger basic volume flow (was increased highly)
- Higher Air mass -> Maximum intake air of the engine at standardized ambient pressure for different valve lifts
- Lambda -> Lambda full load enrichment, Basic map for LAMB_SP_TQ, Basic lambda for the different engine operating point for the exchaus gas temperature model calibration
- Pressure -> Maximum intake manifold pressure for MAF_SP limitation, Limitation of PQ_SCHA, Max. pressure up throttle at standard conditions
- Changed Limit-Maps -> Factor to consider limitations for tia, Maximum allowed torque at clutch due to torque limitation depending on gear ratio by AT, Maximum allowed torque at clutch for twin clutch transmission, Maximum allowed torque at clutch in case of DROF, Torque limitation in case of error of oil pump high pressure stage, Static torque limitation for TCU LIH

Some other changes:
- VMAX off -> Threshold of vehicle speed limitation, Maximal vehicle speed for cruise activation
- Higher engine speed RPM -> Dynamic engine speed limit, Engine speed limit depending on oil temperature, Engine speed limit in case of CRK error (the both last i don't like, because this are useful engine protection limits - will change it)
- Ignition -> Basic Minimum ignition angle
- Higher exhaust temps -> Basic engine out exhaust gas temperatur for reference conditions, Basic engine out exhaust gas temperature for reference conditions
- Fuel pressure -> Fuel pressure setpoint for homogenous engine operation (just marginal increased - for me not logical in a stage 1 map)

I wanted to know what the max. reachable boost level with the standard pully is. I reach currently ~2000 mbar. If for example 2100 mbar is possible, like someone mentioned, then I would know that i can  reduce some more bleed off by modifying the appropriate torque and airflow limiting maps (like mentioned by Bill). Like this i would have a target to reach. I tried to log the bypass valve with the VCDS Value "Kompressorregelklappe: PWM Ansteuerung" in order to find out if a bleed is still going on, but it seems to be the wrong value.

Jürgen
The SIMOS is a great ECU and in my opinion is easier to work with than the MED ECUs. The 8.5 is a well written FR and once you get familiar you will be able to find everything you need.

The value you need to log is RFP_AV. That value should flatline to zero once you reach WOT (or at least full load detection as identified by id_pv_av_fl in your maps)

Maximum pressure up throttle at standard conditions is an example of what I was talking about; a map that doesn’t need to be modified. You’ll notice that it’s below 1 bar (atmo) from the factory. You’ll also notice that the TMAP sensor that corresponds with that value is located before the supercharger, after the throttle body, and will therefore never see positive pressure.

Simple is best with this ECU, change only as little as you need to. Start plugging map IDs into the FR with the ctrl+f function and make sure that the changes are meaningful and see how they impact each other. You’ll be surprised how little you need to play with to get what you want out of a Stage 1.


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jake5874
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« Reply #137 on: October 13, 2021, 08:10:17 PM »

Take a look at the conditions required to enable SAI, and change them so that the conditions are never met.

Really depends what you’re trying to do though. Are you trying to remove SAI from the car completely? Or just get rid of the SAI low flow faults caused by cylinder head carboning?

If you remove it completely you will have to disable the conditions as well as find and remove a few faults for the SAI solenoid and pump being open circuit.


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I'm sorry but I don't think I am being clear enough.  All I have is a bin file.  Are you under an assumption that I also have a DASMOS or map pack?
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prj
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« Reply #138 on: October 14, 2021, 01:42:59 AM »


I'm sorry but I don't think I am being clear enough.  All I have is a bin file.  Are you under an assumption that I also have a DASMOS or map pack?

Then you are going to have to get one, some stuff is posted on the forum, other not.
There are many places that will sell you one.

If you only need to disable SAI it will be much cheaper to pay someone who knows what they are doing to do your file, rather than doing it yourself...

To disable SAI properly you need to:
1. Turn off SAI diags (lc switch)
2. Turn off pump/valve diags (lc switches)
3. Turn off cat heat (eg atmospheric pressure condition)
That's it.

All those are single values, and especially the switches will be challenging without a damos that's semi-close to your file.
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fastboatster
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« Reply #139 on: October 14, 2021, 02:23:18 PM »


I'm sorry but I don't think I am being clear enough.  All I have is a bin file.  Are you under an assumption that I also have a DASMOS or map pack?
There was an excel spreadsheet posted in this thread earlier, it has many maps, their conversions and coordinates. It should be very useful to you since it was also for simos8.5. You can create an xdf file with maps of interest manually using that file and modify your bin in TunerPro. That's what I did, but since my ecu is simos8.4, I had to compare simos8.5 bin with my in (demo) winols. Some maps were easy to identify because there was only one match with identical values, but some maps like MAF limits don't have completely identical values in simos 8.4 and 8.5 so looking at functions referencing these potential maps in Ghidra was needed. Again, you don't need any of that, that spreadsheet should be perfect for your simos8.5.
As for myself, I might be looking for a2l for my simos8.4, really want to come up with my own uds service which will output some of these vars or hijack and existing service 22 id. where do they sell those, lol?
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irish07
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« Reply #140 on: October 14, 2021, 02:53:04 PM »

There was an excel spreadsheet posted in this thread earlier, it has many maps, their conversions and coordinates. It should be very useful to you since it was also for simos8.5. You can create an xdf file with maps of interest manually using that file and modify your bin in TunerPro. That's what I did, but since my ecu is simos8.4, I had to compare simos8.5 bin with my in (demo) winols. Some maps were easy to identify because there was only one match with identical values, but some maps like MAF limits don't have completely identical values in simos 8.4 and 8.5 so looking at functions referencing these potential maps in Ghidra was needed. Again, you don't need any of that, that spreadsheet should be perfect for your simos8.5.
As for myself, I might be looking for a2l for my simos8.4, really want to come up with my own uds service which will output some of these vars or hijack and existing service 22 id. where do they sell those, lol?
You won’t find an a2l or actual damos for simos8.4/8.5, the closest you’ll find is a full mappack for both ecu models and a FR(functionsheet) from continental for simos8.5. If your looking to decompile, either get the vag FRF or a complete boot read. I think Autotuner was playing with a boot option that was in beta, otherwise you might be able to use the bench mode read and unzip the complete backup, although it won’t have everything.


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fastboatster
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« Reply #141 on: October 14, 2021, 03:18:07 PM »

You won’t find an a2l or actual damos for simos8.4/8.5, the closest you’ll find is a full mappack for both ecu models and a FR(functionsheet) from continental for simos8.5. If your looking to decompile, either get the vag FRF or a complete boot read. I think Autotuner was playing with a boot option that was in beta, otherwise you might be able to use the bench mode read and unzip the complete backup, although it won’t have everything.


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pcm flash virtual reads are obtained by decompressing the frfs, there's no sboot section there, of course (btw, there were some threads on simos 12 and 18, these show how to decrypt the frf files into odx, lookup @bri3d posts. I posted in one simos 12 thread how to "decrypt" simos 8 odx payloads. But sboot is not actually needed to look at the asw part, and I do have a simos8.5 full read generously donated to me by the guy whose 4.0TT swap some vendor you know is trying to appropriate so hard.
It will be somewhat disappointing if a2l with ram locations doesn't exist, on another hand, combining several more or less relevant uds 22 vars into one still could be a good exercise for me.
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fastboatster
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« Reply #142 on: June 02, 2022, 10:28:47 AM »

quick update - I was able to port bri3d's simos18 exploit to simos8.5 (needs more polishing and instruction writeup before I publish it on the github) and recover flash passwords in ebay ECU I got. attaching what I was able to read from it. Will still need to port this to simos 8.4 (just need some public rsa key from it, basically).
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fastboatster
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« Reply #143 on: June 02, 2022, 10:31:21 AM »

couldn't change the attachments in the previous message so zipped them all together (sboot, cboot, asw and cal) and posting here
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fastboatster
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« Reply #144 on: July 26, 2022, 10:03:25 AM »

see http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=19183.msg154284#msg154284 for the link for the exploit github repo, so yes, now you can read and write to these ecus in boot mode for cheap.
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garagebuilt
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« Reply #145 on: July 26, 2022, 11:05:08 AM »


I'm sorry but I don't think I am being clear enough.  All I have is a bin file.  Are you under an assumption that I also have a DASMOS or map pack?

If you need SAI disabled or anything else just send me the file and I'll make the mods, I'm not making anyone go-fast files for free though, it's still my living after all  Wink

I have (or can make) mappacks for most SW versions if anyone needs as well.

Bill
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mtb703
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« Reply #146 on: July 27, 2022, 10:33:24 AM »

If you need SAI disabled or anything else just send me the file and I'll make the mods, I'm not making anyone go-fast files for free though, it's still my living after all  Wink

I have (or can make) mappacks for most SW versions if anyone needs as well.

Bill

Any pointers on disabling specific DTCs?  I have a very small leak (P0456) in my EVAP system, and the replacement parts are $400!    I'd rather not disable the whole system, as i'll probably fix it eventually.  I believe the configurable data is under "ERRM_DTC_Management", but I'm having a hard time discerning which address, then what to modify.   SIMOS 8.4
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garagebuilt
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« Reply #147 on: July 27, 2022, 10:51:22 AM »

Any pointers on disabling specific DTCs?  I have a very small leak (P0456) in my EVAP system, and the replacement parts are $400!    I'd rather not disable the whole system, as i'll probably fix it eventually.  I believe the configurable data is under "ERRM_DTC_Management", but I'm having a hard time discerning which address, then what to modify.   SIMOS 8.4
Best pointer I can give you is fix the issue, you’re going to have to do it eventually anyway, just get it over with or deal with the light for a bit until you can save up. You never know if it will cause another issue such as a rich condition or intake leak (such as in the case of a bad purge solenoid).

Which software version is your S8.4? In 551D 0003, the error class tables start at 69B90, and repeat DTC table, additional info, freeze frame, and failure class. If you can’t disassemble, you’ll have to take your time and look at the map ID for hints on what you need to kill if you still want to pursue that option. The other option as you mentioned is to disable fault recognition for the evap system.

Have fun!


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mtb703
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« Reply #148 on: July 27, 2022, 11:53:51 AM »

Yes, 0003

I don't actually have to do it eventually, no emissions testing or checking of any type here.   

Okay, yeah, I was looking there, at DTC Management and Error Management.  Knowing that's the right area, I'll keep digging away.  Thanks

edit - think i found it, 6AC64 & 6AC50.  Now I'll stop being lazy and read the FR on this section.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 12:11:02 PM by mtb703 » Logged
kirukisu
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« Reply #149 on: September 12, 2022, 01:29:07 PM »

How does one could achive pops only on dynamic mode?
ip_iga_min_bas_cbk_sel[0][0]
ip_iga_min_bas_cbk_sel[1][0]
ip_iga_bas_cor_ivvt_vvl[0][0][0]  (all of them)
ip_n_min_puc_at
I assume, altering those would give me pops all the time.
But how to toggle normal/dynamic?
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