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Author Topic: Slow Spool Up On Hybrid Turbo (tune related)  (Read 6746 times)
armada
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« on: May 31, 2022, 02:56:59 AM »

I'm tuning my car at the moment. The setup is the following:
1. 2.0 TFSI (220 hp version)
2. Turbosystems IS38 ball bearing Hybrid (Stage 1)
3. HPFP and LPFP upgraded
4. Wagner Intercooler
5. Panel filter and pipes upgraded
6. TVS Engineering Stage 3+ DQ250 gearbox tune
7. VehiCAL to log

The problem is the slow boost up. I have collected the logs from exact same setup of my friend with the Revo Stage 3 tune and his boost up is much stronger than mine. I don't understand why is that, as in the relevant RPM range my wastegate is completely shut, so there is no way to increase spool up using it. Attaching the logs for the both cases (event marked in GREEN):
Revo Stage 3 (logged using VCDS): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wi2l02EUnIWFHQHumEUfKZIhnxjtprGSgrIufHgX0hc/edit?usp=sharing
My custom tune (logged using VehiCAL): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QPFryVPDPpc36McA8m-JyT6w7_NfMwUG505icFEPyeE/edit?usp=sharing

P.S. I see quite aggressive negative ignition angles in the Revo tune, however, during the duration of negative angles event there is no significant difference in the boost. The difference comes later and carries on.
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prj
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2022, 08:03:07 AM »

Make sure scavenging is active and you have overlap.
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armada
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2022, 10:14:47 AM »

Should I log lv_lamb_scav_act?
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prj
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2022, 10:43:38 AM »

Probably need to go into combustion manager and log operating mode.

I've not been doing calibration for a while, there's only so much I can tell you.
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armada
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2022, 02:58:52 AM »

Anyone knows about ip_mfl_int_scav_inh_thd table (Air mass flow integral threshold for scavenging inhibition)? My FR about SIMOS18 have no information about it whatsoever. It has coolant temperature and pressure (most probably up throttle) axes and grams as Z-axis (all zeros in my case).
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KmosK04
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2022, 07:03:36 AM »

Probably camshaft position setpoint maps
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armada
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2022, 12:11:26 PM »

Thanks. Another one: is ip_cam_sp_vcp[0][0][0] (Intake, STD Lift) this map contain advance angles, or is it "reversed" advanced angle? If I see "minus" sign in front of the number in that table, does it mean "advance" or "retard"?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 12:13:16 PM by armada » Logged
EanDem
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2022, 01:28:49 PM »

I'm tuning my car at the moment. The setup is the following:
1. 2.0 TFSI (220 hp version)
2. Turbosystems IS38 ball bearing Hybrid (Stage 1)
3. HPFP and LPFP upgraded
4. Wagner Intercooler
5. Panel filter and pipes upgraded
6. TVS Engineering Stage 3+ DQ250 gearbox tune
7. VehiCAL to log

The problem is the slow boost up. I have collected the logs from exact same setup of my friend with the Revo Stage 3 tune and his boost up is much stronger than mine. I don't understand why is that, as in the relevant RPM range my wastegate is completely shut, so there is no way to increase spool up using it. Attaching the logs for the both cases (event marked in GREEN):
Revo Stage 3 (logged using VCDS): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wi2l02EUnIWFHQHumEUfKZIhnxjtprGSgrIufHgX0hc/edit?usp=sharing
My custom tune (logged using VehiCAL): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QPFryVPDPpc36McA8m-JyT6w7_NfMwUG505icFEPyeE/edit?usp=sharing

P.S. I see quite aggressive negative ignition angles in the Revo tune, however, during the duration of negative angles event there is no significant difference in the boost. The difference comes later and carries on.

Several things to address:

Use MPI_2_S instead OPP_2_S
Check WG closed till full spool
Check you do not have lean run via combustion efficiensy
Modify ignition correction for combustion mode - advancing till full spool can help increse combustion pressure
Use already mentioned fast logging tool to get detailed view what is happening with your MCU.
Avoid oil high pressure step activation for low rpm - it grabs several ponies needed till full spool

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armada
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2022, 03:20:27 PM »

Several things to address:

Use MPI_2_S instead OPP_2_S
Check WG closed till full spool
Check you do not have lean run via combustion efficiensy
Modify ignition correction for combustion mode - advancing till full spool can help increse combustion pressure
Use already mentioned fast logging tool to get detailed view what is happening with your MCU.
Avoid oil high pressure step activation for low rpm - it grabs several ponies needed till full spool


1. It's a DI car only, no injectors. Not relevant.
2. WG is closed, precontrol factors are logged
3. It is not lean run (lambda 0.83, DTM_PAS mode combustion mode)
4. Ignition advanced till knocking start occurring and rolled back 3 degrees everywhere in the map.
5. I'm already using VehiCAL for all the logging.
6. I don't want to risk my motor: I have high pressure oil pump stage activated everywhere.

So, no hit there. It's definetely cams tuning required, that's why I'm asking the question above about Camshaft position setpoint maps and Z-axis of it specifically.
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EanDem
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2022, 10:50:25 PM »

Send/share file. Will be faster.
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armada
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2022, 02:35:28 AM »

Solved. Was scavenging and VVTI position. Boosting up 550 hp turbo in 500 RPM.

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prj
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2022, 03:40:15 AM »

As I said in my first post Wink
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armada
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2022, 04:01:11 AM »

As I said in my first post Wink
Yes, you were of a great help for this note. This is what pushed me into that direction. Thank you.
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ThomasHH
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2022, 06:32:27 AM »

Was scavenging and VVTI position.

What does this mean? What exactly was the problem and how did you solve it? Thanks...
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prj
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2022, 07:51:19 AM »

What does this mean? What exactly was the problem and how did you solve it? Thanks...
Everything needed is in the thread.
If you don't know what valve timing or scavenging is and how to adjust this, then time to start reading.

Nothing to do with ECU, purely engine/tuning knowledge of basic and DI systems. Scavenging on DI is overlap without blowing fuel out the exhaust, nothing more.
As to how this is beneficial for spool, really helps if you read some books on the subject or at least understand how an ICE works instead of playing Excel spreadsheet all day!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 07:54:52 AM by prj » Logged

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