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Author Topic: Question about setting up nvquot for 6th speed  (Read 5603 times)
Derox
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« on: November 05, 2022, 06:41:04 AM »

Since a couple of weeks I am trying to figure out what values I should type in the NVQUOT for upper and higher gear detection.
I know it is (nmot / vfzg) * 0.007813 at least I assume it is correct from what I have read.

In my 1.8T 06A906032DR 0003 the previous owner swapped the trans from 5speed to 6speed from (FMH) TDI.
When I was in 6th gear the engine sounds like it being driven too low even if the rpm was at 1.5k or even above.
After I installed Cruise Control I noticed, that I dont have any CC in 6th gear. I logged gangi with me7logger and
6th gear says 0.

So I started researching a lot... I have an xdf file where I have NVQUOT1O_0_A,NVQUOT1O_1_A, NVQUOT1O_2_A, NVQUOT1O_3_A.
This is what made me a little bit crazy over the weeks, since everybody is talking about "a single value" but I got 4 of these different values.

Today I found out and thats where I need a little bit of your help. Is the 0_A for 5speed Front, 1_A for 6speed front, 2_A for 5speed Quattro and the other for 6speed Quattro ?

So does that mean, I only have to enter values for the 1_A ?
This would explain everything...
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dal
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2022, 11:52:56 AM »

Yes, each NVQUOT group is related to a transmission coding. You need to find which is being used in your current ECU coding. I have gone through this when I swapped my A3 from 02J to 02Q.
Just a simple trial and error showed me the right one for the 6spd manual coding.
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Derox
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2022, 12:29:21 PM »

But a Group of 5 Speed can be converted to a 6 Speed ? Or does the 5 Speed NVQUOT just checks until the 5th gear ?
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fknbrkn
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2022, 12:43:27 PM »

Convert what?
There is a nvquot6*

You also should touch frarawg and cwfgr*something like that to enable cc at 6th
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Derox
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2022, 01:33:56 PM »

I know that there is a nvquot6 but I think I didnt thought about it too much.

In FRARAWG I have all values at 0.1221 for every gear, it goes up from 0 to 5 on axis should it go up from 0 to 6 ?
At CWFGRGA_0_A and 1_A is 0 and the other 10

I think I will just try to change/lower nvquot*_0_A values
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Derox
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2022, 02:05:09 PM »

I got another question about with what values do I calculate NVQUOT ?
Like how much RPM should I go for ? Or doesnt it really matter as long as I have a value from lower and higher rpm in every gear ?
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Derox
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2022, 05:26:50 PM »

Sorry for "spamming" (you cant edit a post) but I tested a lot of values now to see what will happen if... My Engine and Transmission made like some weird movement after I was on the gas pedal (it was shaky).

So I did some more digging since its not only rpm/speed, it might be but there are other things that you need to check.

Can someone correct me on that ?

NVQUOT1O has to be 250
NVQUOT1U Huh not sure here, but it has to be -1 from the next value NVQUOT2O
NVQUOT2O should be NVQUOT1U + 1
This goes on until 6th gear where NVQUOT6U has to be 19.

So that you cover every possible value from 250 to 19, is that correct ?
What about the NVQUOT*U value ? Is that my logged/calced value, for example in 3rd gear 2120rpm/60kmh so that in there goes 35.333 ?

Sorry for so many questions, but this is bothering me since more than 3 weeks and this is even the reason why my 6th gear feels like I should not be in there (because of the shaky maky)
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nupustas
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2022, 10:58:40 PM »

This is how i set nvquot maps:
1. Calculate  gear ratio of your origin gearbox for every gear. It's very easy to find on google.
2. Do the same thing with new gearbox
3. Now get changing coefficient for every gear (simply divide two numbers you get already)
4. Multiply every (0_A to 3_A) nvquot map from you coefficient according to gear. (I think 48maps need to be adjusted)

I changed gearboxes with really different gear ratios in my car, and this calculation always worked.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2022, 11:23:33 PM by nupustas » Logged
prj
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2022, 06:44:13 AM »

There is much, much easier way without having to know any gear ratios.

1. Log nvquot_w in each gear (drive the car in each gear), RPM does not matter since it's always the same. If you don't have nvquot_w and don't know how to find it, log nmot_w and vfzg, and calculate nvquot_w= nmot_w/vfzg.
2. You get a number for every gear.
3. For every gear you have NVQUOT(x)O and NVQUOT(x)U (where x is is gear). If you have multiple of these maps with different suffixes, then those are just variants, you can change all the same.
4. Visualize them as pairs. Each pair is NVQUOT(x)U and NVQUOT(x+1)O. For example NVQUOT1U and NVQUOT2O. You will have 2 values left over without pairs. NVQUOT1O and NVQUOT6U, ignore them for now. With a 6 speed gearbox you have 5 pairs (1U 2O, 2U 3O, 3U 4O, 4U 5O, 5U 6O).
5. Take the values of nvquot_w that you logged for each gear, and now you want to calculate the average between each gear. So 1 & 2, 2 & 3, 3 & 4, 4 & 5, 5 & 6. If you notice you also have 5 pairs here. To calculate the average add and then divide by two. So if you have 180 and 90 for 1 & 2, you would do (180+90)/2=135...
6. For each NVQUOT pair, set both of their values the same, to the average of the measured pairs. So as in previous example NVQUOT1U and NVQUOT2O would be set to 135.
7. For the leftover 2 edge values NVQUOT1O and NVQUOT6U, take the measured value and add to it the distance to the closest average value. So NVQUOT1O would be in last example 180+(180-135) = 225 and in the other direction for NVQUOT6U.

That's it, done.
Much easier than looking up gear ratios and final drives in ELSA and elsewhere. All you need is the car.

FAQ:
Q: BUT IN THE STOCK FILE THE PAIRS ARE NO SET THE SAME!!!!11111
A: Yes, OEM added a little hysteresis, to reduce possible bounce. You can do it like that too (just add 5% to O value), but even if you don't, it makes no practical difference.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 07:49:07 AM by prj » Logged

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Derox
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2022, 07:06:14 AM »

Thank you very much for this extremly detailed and simple guide, I will follow this guide and try it like that.
I was pretty much nearly there.
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Derox
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2022, 10:07:43 AM »

There is much, much easier way without having to know any gear ratios.

1. Log nvquot_w in each gear (drive the car in each gear), RPM does not matter since it's always the same. If you don't have nvquot_w and don't know how to find it, log nmot_w and vfzg, and calculate nvquot_w= nmot_w/vfzg.
2. You get a number for every gear.
3. For every gear you have NVQUOT(x)O and NVQUOT(x)U (where x is is gear). If you have multiple of these maps with different suffixes, then those are just variants, you can change all the same.
4. Visualize them as pairs. Each pair is NVQUOT(x)U and NVQUOT(x+1)O. For example NVQUOT1U and NVQUOT2O. You will have 2 values left over without pairs. NVQUOT1O and NVQUOT6U, ignore them for now. With a 6 speed gearbox you have 5 pairs (1U 2O, 2U 3O, 3U 4O, 4U 5O, 5U 6O).
5. Take the values of nvquot_w that you logged for each gear, and now you want to calculate the average between each gear. So 1 & 2, 2 & 3, 3 & 4, 4 & 5, 5 & 6. If you notice you also have 5 pairs here. To calculate the average add and then divide by two. So if you have 180 and 90 for 1 & 2, you would do (180+90)/2=135...
6. For each NVQUOT pair, set both of their values the same, to the average of the measured pairs. So as in previous example NVQUOT1U and NVQUOT2O would be set to 135.
7. For the leftover 2 edge values NVQUOT1O and NVQUOT6U, take the measured value and add to it the distance to the closest average value. So NVQUOT1O would be in last example 180+(180-135) = 225 and in the other direction for NVQUOT6U.

That's it, done.
Much easier than looking up gear ratios and final drives in ELSA and elsewhere. All you need is the car.

FAQ:
Q: BUT IN THE STOCK FILE THE PAIRS ARE NO SET THE SAME!!!!11111
A: Yes, OEM added a little hysteresis, to reduce possible bounce. You can do it like that too (just add 5% to O value), but even if you don't, it makes no practical difference.

So everything seems to work again, only 6th gear isnt for cruise control. 5th Gear wasnt working either which is working now with no problem.
Gangi shows every gear correctly, only 6th gear isnt.

As I did the calculation for NVQUOT6U the value was greater than from 6O. Therefore I used a random value lower than the 6O Value.
So as this is not working, my question, can the value be greater than the 6O Value ?

This was my math (maybe its not correct lol)
5th gear. 1902.5 rpm / 90kmh = 21.13888888888889
6th gear. 1535 rpm / 86,25 kmh = 17,79710144927536

The value for 5U and 6O is 19.467 (6O has -1 that value)
21.13888888888889 + (21.13888888888889 - 19.46799516908213) = 22.80978260869565

So 6U would be 22.809, is there something wrong ? The Value I am currently running is 14.000 but its not working with that.
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prj
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2022, 01:28:27 AM »

You have to have equal distance. Of course 6U has to be lower. than 6O.
Correct value will be 15. But 14 should work as well.
Probably you messed something up or your maps are not defined right.

Log gangi and see what happens when you go into 6th gear.
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Derox
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2022, 09:05:19 AM »

You have to have equal distance. Of course 6U has to be lower. than 6O.
Correct value will be 15. But 14 should work as well.
Probably you messed something up or your maps are not defined right.

Log gangi and see what happens when you go into 6th gear.


I noticed that when I drive in 6th gear, it doesnt "shake" anymore when I let of the gas. Before that 5th and 6th gear always had this "bump" after I
let of the gas and now its completely gone, so something is right at least.

About the address, I compared it to a different ecu where I know the address of and the pattern is about right. Maybe its something else, need to check gangi for that for sure.

Hopefully I find some time to log for 6th gear.
Thank you very much for the help sir!
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Derox
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2022, 10:58:41 AM »

Okay I was able to log until 6th gear and Gangi looks like it is correct. Every gear is shown correct in there.
So I guess I have to do something else now, I assume its what Fukenbroken said with the
frarawg and cwfgr* but at this point my knowledge is pretty much over :x

I will need to research more, but the stupid "bump" is finally gone.
Is there an easy explanation about how to setup frarawg and cwfgr* ?
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fknbrkn
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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2022, 12:47:48 AM »

Fill frarawg at 6th gear cell with value of 5th

As for cwfgrga, define it first. Im pretty sure theyre both the same
Every bit represents the gear  where false bit means allow cc on that gear and true for deny.
Iirc stock value are 192 or something. Check FR for detailed explanation
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