DavidG60
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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 12:05:21 AM »
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What's the IAT correction map name ? is this map should be tuned for high advance ignition ?
Thank you
=> Zündwinkelkorrekturkennfeld: KFZWNA.0 |
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@lq!
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 01:16:56 AM »
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Yup, found that.
this temp value is IAT or Engine Temp ?
We can increase selected area values. I think engine doesn't have a timing retard.
BUT,
i think if it IAT values, when we changed values, it may lead to detonation.engine cannot reduce ignition sufficiently.. Isn't this a risk?
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 01:24:25 AM by @lq! »
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DavidG60
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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 04:46:49 AM »
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Yes, it is intake air temperature. i think if it IAT values, when we changed values, it may lead to detonation.engine cannot reduce ignition sufficiently.. Isn't this a risk?
Tuning any map is a risk  |
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@lq!
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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2012, 05:27:47 AM »
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Yes, it is intake air temperature. Tuning any map is a risk hehe yes right.. but not always  I'm just working on known maps. |
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dadaloglu1
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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 08:13:57 AM »
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x-axis mirror map
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eliotroyano
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« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2013, 06:41:29 PM »
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Exactly... these are the desired load maps.
Friends sorry to take thid thread from death but then this Kennfeld LDR-Sollwert KFLDS is directly related to the N75 solenoid as boot control or Injection time? |
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overspeed
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« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2013, 07:51:07 PM »
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it´s desired load [ms/Umdr]
Load in earlier Motronic is related to injector time (not actual, but theorical to reach lambda =1) wich is in the end torque
N75% will change to achieve this desired load value, if you put too high values in low RPM the PDI control will throw 100%DC and you´ll have a overshot in some RPM later...
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mercuric
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2013, 12:45:07 AM »
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Out of curiosity.. I had a look, the M3.8 .OLS I found laying around has map TV - Kennfeld für LDR // TV - Map for LDR. TV should be the abbreviation for Tastverhältnisvorsteuerung, translated "Duty cycle pilot control". If M3.8 works anything like M4.4, the duty cycles in the TV LDR map define the starting duty cycle values before the PID logic is applied. Basically, if you don't get the TV map duty cycles somewhat in line with what's actually required to meet the target loads in the LDR-Sollwert map, there will be a large system deviation between actual and target loads. This tends to result in under/overshoot, boost spikes, or just plain unexpected behavior. It's difficult to get these maps right without proper data logging.
You can also neuter the ability of the PID logic to do it's destruction by greatly reducing the values in maps I-Anteil Ladedruckregler and P-Anteil Ladedruckregler. Then it's up to you to tune the TV duty cycle map to get you in the vicinity of target load.
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automan001
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2013, 07:07:23 AM »
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M3.8 .OLS I found laying around has map TV - Kennfeld für LDR // TV - Map for LDR. TV should be the abbreviation for Tastverhältnisvorsteuerung, translated "Duty cycle pilot control". If M3.8 works anything like M4.4, the duty cycles in the TV LDR map define the starting duty cycle values before the PID logic is applied. Basically, if you don't get the TV map duty cycles somewhat in line with what's actually required to meet the target loads in the LDR-Sollwert map, there will be a large system deviation between actual and target loads. This tends to result in under/overshoot, boost spikes, or just plain unexpected behavior. It's difficult to get these maps right without proper data logging.
I think this map is post-PID WGDC linearization map, it's not pre-PID. It actually translates PID controller result into physical n75 duty cycle which needs to be applied to WG valve to open/close WG to reach target boost. Configuration of this table usually varies depending of WG spring squeeze force. Although in real life most of tuners use the table to reach target boost which is not quite proper way way to do it. |
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mercuric
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2013, 09:21:50 AM »
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I think this map is post-PID WGDC linearization map, it's not pre-PID. It actually translates PID controller result into physical n75 duty cycle which needs to be applied to WG valve to open/close WG to reach target boost. Configuration of this table usually varies depending of WG spring squeeze force. Although in real life most of tuners use the table to reach target boost which is not quite proper way way to do it.
Interesting. I haven't been able to get a proper disassembly of M3.8 yet, but in M4.4 the PID logic directly outputs the duty cycle to the hardware. I'm not sure why they would need a table _after_ PID, but only the logic would say. Eliotroyano, there's quite sparse documentation on these older fuel systems. Best documentation is a disassembly.. Speaking of that, it seems M3.8 may be running an 80C196 (intel MCS-96) or variant there-of? Is that correct? |
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eliotroyano
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2013, 11:43:02 AM »
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Interesting. I haven't been able to get a proper disassembly of M3.8 yet, but in M4.4 the PID logic directly outputs the duty cycle to the hardware. I'm not sure why they would need a table _after_ PID, but only the logic would say.
Eliotroyano, there's quite sparse documentation on these older fuel systems. Best documentation is a disassembly..
Speaking of that, it seems M3.8 may be running an 80C196 (intel MCS-96) or variant there-of? Is that correct?
I haven't time to play with M38x firmware and IDA. You are right M383 is based in the Intel MCS96 Processor family. Here I left you all the identified ICs in a 06A906018CG M383 Ecu. The other fact is that those processors was used in many applications in the past and I saw some documentation about it usage and dissasembling it software. |
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 11:46:23 AM by eliotroyano »
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mercuric
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2013, 12:07:17 PM »
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Nice! Thanks  Very intersting, the SCL4402v4 is also on M4.4. This attaches to the external data bus (P0/P2) of the 80C517 (used instead of the 87C196 in M3.  , appears to be a sort of control ASIC -- Appears to handle a lot of electrical control functions, especially anything PWM related, such as controlling the duty cycle of the turbo valve - In M4.4 the program simply moves a data byte to the SCL across the external data bus to vary the duty cycle. I shall have to see if I can get a M3.8 image to disassemble in IDA, I'm not familiar with MCS-96 assembler but it doesn't look too difficult to comprehend after a cursory glace. Interesting to get a look at some other older ECUs |
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eliotroyano
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2013, 12:26:45 PM »
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Nice! Thanks Very intersting, the SCL4402v4 is also on M4.4. This attaches to the external data bus (P0/P2) of the 80C517 (used instead of the 87C196 in M3. , appears to be a sort of control ASIC -- Appears to handle a lot of electrical control functions, especially anything PWM related, such as controlling the duty cycle of the turbo valve - In M4.4 the program simply moves a data byte to the SCL across the external data bus to vary the duty cycle. I shall have to see if I can get a M3.8 image to disassemble in IDA, I'm not familiar with MCS-96 assembler but it doesn't look too difficult to comprehend after a cursory glace. Interesting to get a look at some other older ECUs I have been playing with M383 and M592 ECUs since some years, well the time that work allow me. Also here I left you the OEM flash content a that ECU of the images if you need it. I also have much more info at home. |
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mercuric
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« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2013, 10:53:15 AM »
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Sweet, thanks for that. I honestly don't even have a M3.8x car, but an M4.4 car, mainly curious about the similarities, learn and share a little bit in the process MCS-96 ASM looks interesting too. Cheers! |
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