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Author Topic: Free ME7 Logging with VehiCAL Logger  (Read 22717 times)
JeanAwt
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« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2023, 07:00:05 AM »

thank you for the precise answer mr prj
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A4 B5 avant 1.8T 2000 NO QUATTRO
_nameless
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« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2023, 09:32:30 AM »

I tried a clone cable to use with ECU Flash about 6 years ago after I broke my legit cable bt snapping off the usb header by mistake.  I could not get it to work with any early k line 16 bit ecus (subaru), I ended up using the usb header from the clone to fix my original
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Blazius
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« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2023, 10:29:33 AM »

In my case I am not 100% convinced its the cable, because like I said it only ever worked with slow init on 0x00 adress not 0x01 even if that is supposed to be the ECU... but even ME7logger/visualme7logger require manual change from 0x01 to 0x00 init otherwise it will simply not work. Even on K-line cable cutting j2534 from the picture.

I have also flashed a different software on my ecu (018CM) which has support for KWP2000 and such.. irrelevant but I tried Vehical again with the cable again now and instead of the timeout error it simply says no reply to 5 baud init from ECU, like all other software I've ever tried in this car.

I know you are probably right since I am not too big on communication protocols but just to confirm I will order a tactrix clone(how do they handle the internet connection for the initialize phase, they like to "die" with active internet connection).
Also I will try with kw1281 / kwp2000 software/write/modify some code see if I can replicate what is exactly happening why it wont connect even with slow init on 0x01 with kline cable either so..

Would be nice to see how this performs finally.
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prj
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« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2023, 01:46:28 PM »

In my case I am not 100% convinced its the cable, because like I said it only ever worked with slow init on 0x00 adress not 0x01 even if that is supposed to be the ECU... but even ME7logger/visualme7logger require manual change from 0x01 to 0x00 init otherwise it will simply not work. Even on K-line cable cutting j2534 from the picture.
There is no 0x00, it does not exist. It is always 0x01, setzi just called it SLOW-0x00, because it is a special case.
The way it is done is:
1. Init on 0x01. Get a KW1281 session.
2. Go through the initial KW1281 session and end it.
3. Wait a certain amount of time.
4. Init on 0x01 again, now you get a KWP2000 session.

If you have a cluster, that does not support fast init or does not shut up after fast init, then nothing else you do will ever work, because every single time you init on 0x01 the cluster expects you to run a full KW1281 session.
If you don't complete a KW1281 session properly then even though the ECU will give you a KWP2000 session on 2nd attempt the cluster will just close the connection.

Your cable is hardware wise incapable of performing any KW1281 comms so it will never work, end of story.

Quote
I have also flashed a different software on my ecu (018CM) which has support for KWP2000 and such..
It is not about the ECU, it is about the cluster.

Quote
irrelevant but I tried Vehical again with the cable again now and instead of the timeout error it simply says no reply to 5 baud init from ECU, like all other software I've ever tried in this car.
Because the cluster won't let you communicate unless you run a KW1281 session first.

Quote
I know you are probably right since I am not too big on communication protocols
Of course I am right, I wrote the damn thing and I tested it with various ECU and cluster combinations.

Quote
but just to confirm I will order a tactrix clone(how do they handle the internet connection for the initialize phase, they like to "die" with active internet connection).
I have no idea about clones, I use the original ones only.

Quote
Also I will try with kw1281 / kwp2000 software/write/modify some code see if I can replicate what is exactly happening why it wont connect even with slow init on 0x01 with kline cable either so..
See above - it is because of cluster. Cluster requires KW1281 session to pass first.
If you run a direct K-Line to the ECU you can just run fast init all day.

Also this is not any faster or better than ME7Logger, it is just more convenient to configure and connect without having to mess around with config files...
And then you get the same interface for all the newer cars.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2023, 01:49:05 PM by prj » Logged

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Geomeo
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2023, 11:50:59 AM »

Why would OP's cable not be capable of doing kw1281 protocol?.....

https://www.blafusel.de/obd/obd2_kw1281.html#5
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prj
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« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2023, 01:58:30 PM »

Why would OP's cable not be capable of doing kw1281 protocol?.....

https://www.blafusel.de/obd/obd2_kw1281.html#5

Logger works with J2534 only. J2534 does not support KW1281.
Only choice is to use KWP2000 as a hack with P1_MAX and P4_MIN on minimum values, so it returns instantly.

His J2534 cable ignores those settings, no KW1281 comms possible.
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Geomeo
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« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2023, 04:03:45 PM »

Is it possible OP have shitty Windows 232 drivers?....I've had that before with various USB-RS232 devices.  Ended up downloading directly from ftdi.

https://ftdichip.com/drivers/vcp-drivers/

Also where's the pop up message that says your cable is incompatible, please purchase one from prj's OBD2 store?  You slacking on the try catch handlers?  Grin
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Blazius
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« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2023, 05:42:23 PM »

There is no 0x00, it does not exist. It is always 0x01, setzi just called it SLOW-0x00, because it is a special case.
The way it is done is:
1. Init on 0x01. Get a KW1281 session.
2. Go through the initial KW1281 session and end it.
3. Wait a certain amount of time.
4. Init on 0x01 again, now you get a KWP2000 session.

If you have a cluster, that does not support fast init or does not shut up after fast init, then nothing else you do will ever work, because every single time you init on 0x01 the cluster expects you to run a full KW1281 session.
If you don't complete a KW1281 session properly then even though the ECU will give you a KWP2000 session on 2nd attempt the cluster will just close the connection.

Your cable is hardware wise incapable of performing any KW1281 comms so it will never work, end of story.
It is not about the ECU, it is about the cluster.
Because the cluster won't let you communicate unless you run a KW1281 session first.
Of course I am right, I wrote the damn thing and I tested it with various ECU and cluster combinations.
I have no idea about clones, I use the original ones only.
See above - it is because of cluster. Cluster requires KW1281 session to pass first.
If you run a direct K-Line to the ECU you can just run fast init all day.

Also this is not any faster or better than ME7Logger, it is just more convenient to configure and connect without having to mess around with config files...
And then you get the same interface for all the newer cars.

I have to agree to disagree at the moment because since I have flashed the newer software only on ecu, things have changed a little bit and I havent changed anything else.
Let me summarize:

Same base ecu, same cluster, same car wiring , same cables used:

Old software (018CA, KW1281 only):
ME7logger/VisualME7logger:

fast init no
slow 0x01 init no
slow 0x00 works engine off, ignition on

Vehical - does not work in any config

Old software 018CA with manual patch to connect while engine running:
ME7logger:

fast init - no
slow init 0x01 - no
slow 0x00 - works both engine running and ignition on

Vehical - does not work

New software 018CM(KWP2000 support, runs via VCDS):
ME7logger:

fast init - no
slow init 0x01 - yes both engine running and ignition only
slow 0x00 no - wrong ecu reply (iirc EF response or something along of sorts)

Vehical - no reply to 5 baud init in any config

Something funky is going... for now I have ordered a tactrix cable but I would be surprised if it works I will be able to confirm then whats going on my setup exactly.
But on Vehical website Chipsoft Pro is listed as confirmed working with Vehical so I was a little bit surprised to be honest.
We will see anyway, but I'd be interested to see what is happening exactly, not sure why I can connect with proper slow 0x01 init with Kline cable now no problems and I couldnt before on the 018CA software Smiley


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prj
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« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2023, 04:25:16 AM »

Something funky is going... for now I have ordered a tactrix cable but I would be surprised if it works I will be able to confirm then whats going on my setup exactly.
But on Vehical website Chipsoft Pro is listed as confirmed working with Vehical so I was a little bit surprised to be honest.
Your selective reading ability is amazing.
Chipsoft (original) was only tested on a CAN controller.
If you get no reply from it on K-Line then the K-Line on it is busted, plain and simple.

Your continued idea, that the software is somehow at fault is just stupid.
There are hundreds of users using the free ME7 functionality every day, and none of them are having any problems with it.

Probably because they're not using a china clone of an obscure russian cable with a busted K-Line, and then wondering why a K-Line protocol does not work.
If SLOW-0x01 works in ME7Logger with a KKL and does not work in VehiCAL logger it shows clear as day that your cable does not have a functional K-Line at all.
Doing any further tests is pointless -> get a J2534 interface with a functional K-Line driver or contact Chipsoft support if you actually have an authentic cable. It's their issue to fix, not mine.

I am not going to entertain any more allegations or respond to your insane theories when you are just using hardware that has no functional K-Line to talk to a K-Line ECU.
Maybe next thing is you will try to communicate with the ECU without anything connected to the car or computer at all and then blame the software that it can not talk to the ECU telepathically Cheesy
« Last Edit: December 28, 2023, 04:35:49 AM by prj » Logged

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prj
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« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2023, 04:27:23 AM »

Is it possible OP have shitty Windows 232 drivers?....I've had that before with various USB-RS232 devices.  Ended up downloading directly from ftdi.

https://ftdichip.com/drivers/vcp-drivers/

Also where's the pop up message that says your cable is incompatible, please purchase one from prj's OBD2 store?  You slacking on the try catch handlers?  Grin.  

I am not sure what the ftdi drivers have to do with a J2534 interface.
My software does not support KKL cables. J2534 interfaces do not need FTDI drivers, they come with their own.

He has no issues with any drivers, since his interface works with CAN controllers. Seems that there is no K-Line on it though or it's damaged.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2023, 04:34:34 AM by prj » Logged

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Geomeo
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« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2023, 08:30:02 AM »

https://ecutools.eu/chip-tuning/chipsoft-j2534-pro/
It says support of additional Kline bus on pins 3,8,9,11,12,13,15.  It might help.
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prj
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« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2023, 08:33:52 AM »

https://ecutools.eu/chip-tuning/chipsoft-j2534-pro/
It says support of additional Kline bus on pins 3,8,9,11,12,13,15.  It might help.
The pins used in VAG are the standard ones. And you are assuming he has the original cable.
Most likely he has a chinese knockoff where the K-Line driver isn't even soldered Cheesy

All I'm saying is, if there is no response on K at all in any of the modes it's an interface issue and the support goes to the interface vendor.
There is really no point to discuss it here apart from "this cable does not work, buy a different one".

Nothing that the application developer can fix.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2023, 08:35:58 AM by prj » Logged

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Blazius
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« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2023, 10:30:22 AM »

The pins used in VAG are the standard ones. And you are assuming he has the original cable.
Most likely he has a chinese knockoff where the K-Line driver isn't even soldered Cheesy

All I'm saying is, if there is no response on K at all in any of the modes it's an interface issue and the support goes to the interface vendor.
There is really no point to discuss it here apart from "this cable does not work, buy a different one".

Nothing that the application developer can fix.

I am pretty sure I do not have a clone cable it was bought straight from ECUTools Smiley (the exact link above even) , it should be original Chipsoft Russia/Ukraine cable, so yes I could contact them to see whats up with it if there is anything.

If you dont have handson experience with this cable, its a little bit funky - to use it a s K-line only cable it comes with an 'application' which rewrites the firmware to works a k-line serial port without J2534 functionality(ofcourse in this mode it does not work with Vehical at all)
It looks like when you have it in J2534 mode K-line does not seem to work ? Could test it with some j2534 diag software I guess... or even me7logger in this mode, but even if it does(and it prolly does) then its no good for the original issue.

I'll go ahead and test that right now, alteast that will confirm if Kline works or not Smiley

But again... on the older software 0x01 never ever worked.. flashing the newer software on 0x00 is now "broken" and 0x01 works as it should on the same exact K-line cable, so the setup is at play aswell here since its not a "normal" setup.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2023, 10:53:05 AM by Blazius » Logged
prj
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« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2023, 04:58:51 AM »

I am pretty sure I do not have a clone cable it was bought straight from ECUTools Smiley (the exact link above even) , it should be original Chipsoft Russia/Ukraine cable, so yes I could contact them to see whats up with it if there is anything.
Then do that.

Quote
It looks like when you have it in J2534 mode K-line does not seem to work ?
It either does not work at all or it does not support the initialization switches properly. Either way it's a problem with the cable firmware that only the manufacturer can fix.
Quote
Could test it with some j2534 diag software I guess... or even me7logger in this mode, but even if it does(and it prolly does) then its no good for the original issue.
I'll go ahead and test that right now, alteast that will confirm if Kline works or not Smiley
ME7Logger does not work in J2534 mode, but if you flash it to a dumb K-Line cable then yes, you can verify if the K-Line hardware works at all on the cable.
If that works then they have a problem in J2534 dll or J2534 firmware of the cable.

The correct implementation of the following J2534 parameters is required for communication:
P1_MAX
P3_MIN
P4_MIN
FIVE_BAUD_MOD
ISO9141_NO_CHECKSUM

Quote
But again... on the older software 0x01 never ever worked.. flashing the newer software on 0x00 is now "broken" and 0x01 works as it should on the same exact K-line cable, so the setup is at play aswell here since its not a "normal" setup.
None of that matters. In Auto mode it goes through all the possibilities and in manual mode you can set it the same as ME7Logger.

SLOW-0x01 and DOUBLE-SLOW 0x01 is the same thing for VehiCAL Logger. Because it's happy with both.
DOUBLE-SLOW just means that the first time you receive a KW1281 session, you run it to completion and reconnect.
SLOW means you should do a slow init and expect a KWP2000 session.
For me this is pointless, you just check at start of session what the keybytes are, if you get KWP2000 directly on 0x01 then you just don't bother with the KW1281 stuff and continue.
So for VehiCAL Logger DOUBLE-SLOW 0x01 is same like SLOW-0x00 and SLOW-0x01 for ME7Logger at the same time.

Newer ECU's respond to fast and slow init on 0x11.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2023, 05:00:38 AM by prj » Logged

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Blazius
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« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2023, 07:11:23 AM »

Then do that.
It either does not work at all or it does not support the initialization switches properly. Either way it's a problem with the cable firmware that only the manufacturer can fix.
ME7Logger does not work in J2534 mode, but if you flash it to a dumb K-Line cable then yes, you can verify if the K-Line hardware works at all on the cable.
If that works then they have a problem in J2534 dll or J2534 firmware of the cable.

None of that matters. In Auto mode it goes through all the possibilities and in manual mode you can set it the same as ME7Logger.

SLOW-0x01 and DOUBLE-SLOW 0x01 is the same thing for VehiCAL Logger. Because it's happy with both.
DOUBLE-SLOW just means that the first time you receive a KW1281 session, you run it to completion and reconnect.
SLOW means you should do a slow init and expect a KWP2000 session.
For me this is pointless, you just check at start of session what the keybytes are, if you get KWP2000 directly on 0x01 then you just don't bother with the KW1281 stuff and continue.
So for VehiCAL Logger DOUBLE-SLOW 0x01 is same like SLOW-0x00 and SLOW-0x01 for ME7Logger at the same time.

Newer ECU's respond to fast and slow init on 0x11.

I switched it into Kline adapter mode yesterday and noticed couldnt get an echo even with me7logger, so I thought that cannot be right, checking via device manager it does not install the K-line drivers... ofcourse it does not tell you this.... except in a small part of the manual... because the driver is not signed.

So you gotta disable driver signing to manually install it when its in k-line mode. Did so and tested with Me7logger and voila it works like the oldie cable.
Okay, so we knows it works as a K-line adapter(one of the main functions / selling points of it...lol)


Switching it back to J2534 mode, and giving Vehical a go pretty much end up with same result after messing about for one hour or so, trying all combos and such.

If ignition on and trying to connect on Auto, Auto baud, it will connect with double slow 0x01. But after 2 seconds or so it will throw the error attached below -timeout/no ecu reponse.

Without turning ignition off, and trying on auto connect it will "connect" on fast 0x10 but fails to detect baud rate
So if I then try to connect via fast 0x10 and select baud rate manually it will just say wrong reply, find second attached image below.

This what I've been able to get out from it...

The developer definetly says the cable  is capable of K-line exchange as a J2534 adapter but at the moment it does not seem to be case Smiley I need to find/test it with another program with j2534 passthrough to see if it works there on a K-line connection or not I guess to confirm which is the last "unknown" of this cable.

I shouldve gotten the Dialink it looks like... maybe that works better oh well.
Let me know what you think and probably should write something indeed to Denis/Chipsoft so we can use the cable in every application lol.






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