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Author Topic: Hitting max ps_w/rl_w and fueling  (Read 139329 times)
nyet
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2012, 04:09:26 PM »

honestly, i think prj is pretty much the only one of us in a position to make real progress on it...

I'm definitely out of my depth for most of this right now, unless i spend a lot of time with a disassembler.
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2012, 04:48:42 PM »

Do we have a concensus?

Let's formulate a solid plan, then we can split up the work and tackle this.

Who's in?

prj, elray...anyone else? Silentbob?

Silentbob said he'd send me a list that he drafted up, but I guess he got caught up in other things and never got that far.
Do you guys have a good suggestion for a plug and play MAP sensor I could run on my RS4 that is bigger than 2.5 bar ?
Obviously this is not needed to make these modifications and have them work, but just asking.

This Saturday I am spending the day on the airfield with my emulator plugged in. I can try loads of stuff.
We might as well continue in this thread, since everyone is posting here, does not matter at this point.

I will be using my K-Box binary. But I think ultimately it's not going to matter too much...
So assuming a factor of two and stock MAP sensor.

Going through elRey's list:
fpbrkds_w, KFPBRK, KFPBRKNW - this is not pressure conversion. This is just a "correction factor". Also, because this is a division, no changes are needed here.
DSLGRAD and DSLOFS - have to be divided by two. This way the maximum value it will go up to is half of the current value.
DSUGRAD and DSOFS - exactly same story - divided by two.
PUMN, PUMX, PUSPSMX, PUE, DPUPS - divide by two.
DPUPVDK - already all zero in K-Box
FHOE - divide by two
PVDKMN, PVDKMX, PVDKPSMX - divide by two
DPDSVLU, PVDKPUD - divide by two
KVLAD - multiply by two (constant for converting boost pressure to flow)
LADFIL - leave it alone
FPVMXN2 - leave it alone, it's a relation between two pressures (multiplier)
PBKVVSTG - this is a constant without axis in K-Box, leave it alone.
KFLDF - axis divide by two
PSPVDKUG - seems like a factor between two pressures, leave it alone.
KLAF - the map needs to lose every second value, and the new values copy pasted into the first half. The rest of the values have to be found somehow. I might be wrong here.

Additonally:
KFLDIMX - divide pressure axis by two

So - I got this started (of course not taking credit from elRey who posted the initial list of things), come on Smiley
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 04:55:31 PM by prj » Logged

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Bische
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« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2012, 09:02:50 PM »

Im also riding the ps_w cap as of now. It is my understanding this is done just by rescaling pressure affected maps, but what is the best way to half ps_w to begin with? KFKHFM?

I will getting into this tonight and start with that list.
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nyet
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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2012, 09:53:34 AM »


Do you guys have a good suggestion for a plug and play MAP sensor I could run on my RS4 that is bigger than 2.5 bar ?


I believe there is a plug and play 3bar ford sensor somewhere. Not sure about 5bar
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« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2012, 10:53:16 AM »

3 bar is fine, does not have to be 5 bar...
Part number would be awesome.

I am also hitting the ps_w cap on my RS4. Had to downscale KFKHFM...
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Bische
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« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2012, 01:36:19 PM »

I have now gone through that list myself, started to find the maps I need to scale and define those I didnt have.

Hoping to define the last maps/constants tomorrow and write a scaled file to log.

What do you think of this approach to deal with the ps_w scaling:

KISRM, divided by 2 = ps_w divided by 2.

KFPRG, divided by 2 = Internal backpressure reference divided by 2.

KFURL, multiplied by 2 = Conversion factor of ps_w to rl_w multiplied by 2.
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prj
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« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2012, 02:03:04 PM »

It's not so simple, some other things will go wrong as well - KLAFTE and so on.
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Bische
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« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2012, 08:31:30 PM »

It's not so simple, some other things will go wrong as well - KLAFTE and so on.

Is not the input of KLAF and KLAFT(E) a relationship between pressures? And since we are scaling down pu_w, ps_w and boost by an equal amount, we should not have to worry about those maps?

In the case of KLAFT(E):
975 / 2560 = 0,380859375

487,5 / 1280 = 0,380859375

Is there benefits to scale ps_w via KFKHFM and fueling back up in KFLF vs. scaling ps_w down via KISRM and then rl_w right back up via KFPRG+KFURL? KFPRG should be scaled either way, since the output is in hPa which then is added/subtracted to ps_w.

Im just thinking out loud here, these are only my speculations.
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nyet
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« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2012, 11:25:11 PM »


Is there benefits to scale ps_w via KFKHFM and fueling back up in KFLF vs. scaling ps_w down via KISRM and then rl_w right back up via KFPRG+KFURL? KFPRG should be scaled either way, since the output is in hPa which then is added/subtracted to ps_w.

If i'm reading this right, even if we don't get a larger MAP, we can fix the ps_w limit problem this way?
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« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2012, 11:50:34 PM »

Is not the input of KLAF and KLAFT(E) a relationship between pressures? And since we are scaling down pu_w, ps_w and boost by an equal amount, we should not have to worry about those maps?
If you are rescaling everything else, then of course this will work.
But I thought you said only rescaling the three variables you mentioned - that wouldn't work.
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jibberjive
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« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2012, 01:00:20 AM »

3 bar is fine, does not have to be 5 bar...
If the boost limit right now is ~22psi, then when you add.5 (~7 psi) you're capped around 29-30 psi.  Some people are going to boost 30+ psi, so my vote is to go with a 5-bar for the headroom so that those high-boosters won't have to do all of the map modifications a second time.
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« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2012, 02:34:08 AM »

If you are rescaling everything else, then of course this will work.
But I thought you said only rescaling the three variables you mentioned - that wouldn't work.

I understand, I could have formulated myself better Smiley

I meant I went through the list you added your comments to, get a headstart trying to getting a better understanding of what im dealing with, and I intend to scale those too. I just asked about the idea I had about scaling ps_w in particular and the adjacent conversion "back" to rl_w.

I totally agree with just divide everything by 2, both for simplicitys sake and to do it once - have enough headroom for any desired boost. I think I will put in a 4bar VW TDI sensor and be done with it.
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prj
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« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2012, 04:17:17 AM »

If the boost limit right now is ~22psi, then when you add.5 (~7 psi) you're capped around 29-30 psi.  Some people are going to boost 30+ psi, so my vote is to go with a 5-bar for the headroom so that those high-boosters won't have to do all of the map modifications a second time.
Yep, but the sensor can be 3 bar for example... The hard part is not changing the sensor (that's just DSLOFS and DSLGRAD), but making the ECU read more boost.
So my suggestion was to use a 5 bar scale, but of course for most people a 3 or 4 bar sensor will be fine.

Btw, I left my emulator in my car - daily driving with it.
So I can play with things...

I just need to get myself together, take my 551K tune that I am running right now and adjust lots of stuff.
But I also need a bigger MAP sensor before I do this. Does anyone have a part number for me, of what I should order?
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nyet
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« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2012, 09:29:27 AM »

This is what I was looking into (but it isn't plug and play)... you'd have to fab up a housing and a plug for the harness

http://cache.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MPXH6400A.pdf

Take a stock MAP, cut it up, add a little hose, and route it to this guy.

Or take an off the shelf standalone boost gauge sensor, and wire it up.

You'd still need to do a bit of fabbing, and it isn't plug and play.

I'm still looking for the stock fit 3bar MAP but i can't seem to find it.
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nyet
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« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2012, 09:32:44 AM »

See here for other info

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Manifold_air_pressure#OEM

I have heard that people have used these

0 281 002 401: 0.2-3.0 bar (038 906 051 C - Audi TTMKII/VW Jetta V TDI)

... but i haven't personally tried it.
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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience.
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