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Author Topic: Hitting max ps_w/rl_w and fueling  (Read 151131 times)
nyet
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2012, 04:09:26 PM »

honestly, i think prj is pretty much the only one of us in a position to make real progress on it...

I'm definitely out of my depth for most of this right now, unless i spend a lot of time with a disassembler.
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2012, 04:48:42 PM »

Do we have a concensus?

Let's formulate a solid plan, then we can split up the work and tackle this.

Who's in?

prj, elray...anyone else? Silentbob?

Silentbob said he'd send me a list that he drafted up, but I guess he got caught up in other things and never got that far.
Do you guys have a good suggestion for a plug and play MAP sensor I could run on my RS4 that is bigger than 2.5 bar ?
Obviously this is not needed to make these modifications and have them work, but just asking.

This Saturday I am spending the day on the airfield with my emulator plugged in. I can try loads of stuff.
We might as well continue in this thread, since everyone is posting here, does not matter at this point.

I will be using my K-Box binary. But I think ultimately it's not going to matter too much...
So assuming a factor of two and stock MAP sensor.

Going through elRey's list:
fpbrkds_w, KFPBRK, KFPBRKNW - this is not pressure conversion. This is just a "correction factor". Also, because this is a division, no changes are needed here.
DSLGRAD and DSLOFS - have to be divided by two. This way the maximum value it will go up to is half of the current value.
DSUGRAD and DSOFS - exactly same story - divided by two.
PUMN, PUMX, PUSPSMX, PUE, DPUPS - divide by two.
DPUPVDK - already all zero in K-Box
FHOE - divide by two
PVDKMN, PVDKMX, PVDKPSMX - divide by two
DPDSVLU, PVDKPUD - divide by two
KVLAD - multiply by two (constant for converting boost pressure to flow)
LADFIL - leave it alone
FPVMXN2 - leave it alone, it's a relation between two pressures (multiplier)
PBKVVSTG - this is a constant without axis in K-Box, leave it alone.
KFLDF - axis divide by two
PSPVDKUG - seems like a factor between two pressures, leave it alone.
KLAF - the map needs to lose every second value, and the new values copy pasted into the first half. The rest of the values have to be found somehow. I might be wrong here.

Additonally:
KFLDIMX - divide pressure axis by two

So - I got this started (of course not taking credit from elRey who posted the initial list of things), come on Smiley
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 04:55:31 PM by prj » Logged

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Bische
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« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2012, 09:02:50 PM »

Im also riding the ps_w cap as of now. It is my understanding this is done just by rescaling pressure affected maps, but what is the best way to half ps_w to begin with? KFKHFM?

I will getting into this tonight and start with that list.
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nyet
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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2012, 09:53:34 AM »


Do you guys have a good suggestion for a plug and play MAP sensor I could run on my RS4 that is bigger than 2.5 bar ?


I believe there is a plug and play 3bar ford sensor somewhere. Not sure about 5bar
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« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2012, 10:53:16 AM »

3 bar is fine, does not have to be 5 bar...
Part number would be awesome.

I am also hitting the ps_w cap on my RS4. Had to downscale KFKHFM...
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Bische
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« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2012, 01:36:19 PM »

I have now gone through that list myself, started to find the maps I need to scale and define those I didnt have.

Hoping to define the last maps/constants tomorrow and write a scaled file to log.

What do you think of this approach to deal with the ps_w scaling:

KISRM, divided by 2 = ps_w divided by 2.

KFPRG, divided by 2 = Internal backpressure reference divided by 2.

KFURL, multiplied by 2 = Conversion factor of ps_w to rl_w multiplied by 2.
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prj
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« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2012, 02:03:04 PM »

It's not so simple, some other things will go wrong as well - KLAFTE and so on.
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Bische
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« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2012, 08:31:30 PM »

It's not so simple, some other things will go wrong as well - KLAFTE and so on.

Is not the input of KLAF and KLAFT(E) a relationship between pressures? And since we are scaling down pu_w, ps_w and boost by an equal amount, we should not have to worry about those maps?

In the case of KLAFT(E):
975 / 2560 = 0,380859375

487,5 / 1280 = 0,380859375

Is there benefits to scale ps_w via KFKHFM and fueling back up in KFLF vs. scaling ps_w down via KISRM and then rl_w right back up via KFPRG+KFURL? KFPRG should be scaled either way, since the output is in hPa which then is added/subtracted to ps_w.

Im just thinking out loud here, these are only my speculations.
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nyet
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« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2012, 11:25:11 PM »


Is there benefits to scale ps_w via KFKHFM and fueling back up in KFLF vs. scaling ps_w down via KISRM and then rl_w right back up via KFPRG+KFURL? KFPRG should be scaled either way, since the output is in hPa which then is added/subtracted to ps_w.

If i'm reading this right, even if we don't get a larger MAP, we can fix the ps_w limit problem this way?
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prj
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« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2012, 11:50:34 PM »

Is not the input of KLAF and KLAFT(E) a relationship between pressures? And since we are scaling down pu_w, ps_w and boost by an equal amount, we should not have to worry about those maps?
If you are rescaling everything else, then of course this will work.
But I thought you said only rescaling the three variables you mentioned - that wouldn't work.
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jibberjive
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« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2012, 01:00:20 AM »

3 bar is fine, does not have to be 5 bar...
If the boost limit right now is ~22psi, then when you add.5 (~7 psi) you're capped around 29-30 psi.  Some people are going to boost 30+ psi, so my vote is to go with a 5-bar for the headroom so that those high-boosters won't have to do all of the map modifications a second time.
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Bische
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« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2012, 02:34:08 AM »

If you are rescaling everything else, then of course this will work.
But I thought you said only rescaling the three variables you mentioned - that wouldn't work.

I understand, I could have formulated myself better Smiley

I meant I went through the list you added your comments to, get a headstart trying to getting a better understanding of what im dealing with, and I intend to scale those too. I just asked about the idea I had about scaling ps_w in particular and the adjacent conversion "back" to rl_w.

I totally agree with just divide everything by 2, both for simplicitys sake and to do it once - have enough headroom for any desired boost. I think I will put in a 4bar VW TDI sensor and be done with it.
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prj
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« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2012, 04:17:17 AM »

If the boost limit right now is ~22psi, then when you add.5 (~7 psi) you're capped around 29-30 psi.  Some people are going to boost 30+ psi, so my vote is to go with a 5-bar for the headroom so that those high-boosters won't have to do all of the map modifications a second time.
Yep, but the sensor can be 3 bar for example... The hard part is not changing the sensor (that's just DSLOFS and DSLGRAD), but making the ECU read more boost.
So my suggestion was to use a 5 bar scale, but of course for most people a 3 or 4 bar sensor will be fine.

Btw, I left my emulator in my car - daily driving with it.
So I can play with things...

I just need to get myself together, take my 551K tune that I am running right now and adjust lots of stuff.
But I also need a bigger MAP sensor before I do this. Does anyone have a part number for me, of what I should order?
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nyet
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« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2012, 09:29:27 AM »

This is what I was looking into (but it isn't plug and play)... you'd have to fab up a housing and a plug for the harness

http://cache.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MPXH6400A.pdf

Take a stock MAP, cut it up, add a little hose, and route it to this guy.

Or take an off the shelf standalone boost gauge sensor, and wire it up.

You'd still need to do a bit of fabbing, and it isn't plug and play.

I'm still looking for the stock fit 3bar MAP but i can't seem to find it.
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nyet
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« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2012, 09:32:44 AM »

See here for other info

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Manifold_air_pressure#OEM

I have heard that people have used these

0 281 002 401: 0.2-3.0 bar (038 906 051 C - Audi TTMKII/VW Jetta V TDI)

... but i haven't personally tried it.
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