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prj
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 09:14:52 AM »
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my apology, yes .82, think .84 is t3 housing? I do plan on upgrading valve train at a later stage to accomodate shifting at 8000rpm and the .82 housing should keep power up to 8k rpm. I didnt expect the lag to be this bad as I was hoping to have my full boost 20 psi at around 4500  , not looking at changing the turbine AR thou. This turbo flows nowhere enough to go all the way to 8000 rpm. The GT2871R will make about 400hp, if that on pump. You can be easily within the stock rev limit/7200 and have a usable power band. 8000 is GT30R territory on this motor. I know with some more time spent on the map that it could increase but I doubt we could get it to spool 500 RPM quicker without running really high EGT. Please explain what you mean by this sentence. |
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Rick
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 09:16:23 AM »
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BB turbos do not produce boost any earlier in the RPM range than journal. What they do do is spool up quicker once the exhaust gas energy is available - e.g. after a gear change.
If the N75 is flat out then there is little extra to come from tuning the software response wise. You need to pressure test your intake and check you have enough preload on the wastegate.
Also, what gear was that log taken in?
Rick
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Rick
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2012, 09:22:46 AM »
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Please explain what you mean by this sentence.
I think he mean retarding ignition to aid spool. It may aid spool but it doesn't make the car accelerate quicker! |
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prj
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2012, 09:24:06 AM »
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I think he mean retarding ignition to aid spool. It may aid spool but it doesn't make the car accelerate quicker! I don't think he meant this. And retarding timing at low load is irrelevant in context of EGT's. I am more thinking of runner diameter on the EM, but let's see what the OP has to say. |
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Gizmo20VT
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2012, 12:10:12 PM »
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What I mean with that sentence PJR is to pull fuel in the spool range by running leaner, this would then increase EGT which will aid with spool?
My wastegate's cracking pressue is 0.6 bar (9 psi)
@ rick - this log was taken in 3rd gear. Application used ME 7 Logger.
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Rick
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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 12:35:35 PM »
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You need to make sure you have enough preload on the wastegate, regardless of spring pressure.
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prj
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2012, 12:47:40 PM »
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What I mean with that sentence PJR is to pull fuel in the spool range by running leaner, this would then increase EGT which will aid with spool? EGT is not even a problem until high in the rev range on full boost. In the spoolup area you must tune for best torque. And regardless your spoolup will not be 500 rpm earlier if you lean out the mixture. You need to learn/understand some tuning fundamentals and fix the hardware issues that plague your car. |
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Gizmo20VT
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2012, 02:49:58 PM »
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EGT is not even a problem until high in the rev range on full boost.
In the spoolup area you must tune for best torque. And regardless your spoolup will not be 500 rpm earlier if you lean out the mixture.
You need to learn/understand some tuning fundamentals and fix the hardware issues that plague your car.
Agreed and noted, I am here to learn and expand my motor knowledge as well as meet new people along my build . I did a fresh log now, Also got a 16514/P0130/000304 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Malfunction in Circuit after this log. I suspect a boot leak perhaps, or the actual lambda probe might have failed. |
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ibizacupra
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« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2012, 03:15:24 AM »
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I have Airtite assisting me with my car mapping so we will still get to timing and so on, this is a base file just so I can drive the car, going to try swap out N75 tonight to see if the unit might be failing mechanically.
Just not the spool I expected from the current setup as this is my first BB turbo, and it spools like my journal spec t3.
I know with some more time spent on the map that it could increase but I doubt we could get it to spool 500 RPM quicker without running really high EGT.
as said make sure you have some decent preload on the actuator so it stays shut during spool... and small amount of opening will delay spool. until its spooling you dont need to be fueling it rich... too much fueling slows spooling. once its got going, then fuel is required. I would add timing personally before its spooled to get the motor to want to "perk up" and and get some gas flow happening sooner so the turbo will wake up. Any pre-turbine leaks will cock up spool also... in case there's and blows going on. 0.8x on std cc motor is'nt going to help spool in my experience. I used 0.6x hotside on stock cc motor... 0.8x on stroker to try and preserve spool.. good luck |
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Gizmo20VT
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2012, 01:28:15 AM »
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Alright, I have been reading about the Boost PID, Im still running stock k04-02x PID maps as Im trying to map from my base file, Cant find a reference file for a BT 630cc tune. From my understanding LDRXN would have capped the boost because from S4 wiki it states "Specifically, on a full throttle pull, your boost profile will follow LDRXN." however Im still overshooting targer, so from further reading on this thread http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=315.15 adjusting KFLDIMX might resolve my problem. So brings me to the question would lowering KFLDIMX from 5k-7k perhaps keep my boost more inline, if this would help does that mean that I could increase KFLDIMX in lower RPM to try aid spool? I've attached a screen shot of my PID, something I did spot is LDIATA value (69.72) doesnt look correct according to the rest? |
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 01:33:54 AM by Gizmo20VT »
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prj
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2012, 01:47:39 AM »
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Your N75 duty cycle is maxed, your problem is hardware, not software.
Stop screwing around with the maps and pressure test your intake, check your dump valve and blank off the check valve at the back of the manifold.
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Gizmo20VT
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2012, 01:55:47 AM »
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Did a boost leak test last week already, no leaks found!
Dump Valve is a OEM TT 710N diaphram keeps suction as it should when sucking the top nipple of the valve.
The check valve on the brake servo line? I have redone the servo line some time back with a New one way valve after deleting the EVAP system.
There is nothing else hardware wise that I can look at. check every single bolt on the manifold and turbo, they are tight and gaskets are still in perfect condition...
Edit: In both logs there are different actual boost vs requested, with the exact same configuration. I have removed the wastegate and it moves as it should with load applied... I have different WG duty cycle's on both logs... Could wiring to the N75 cause a problem, would it not throw a code as if it was unplugged then? If unplugged its happy to run wastegate pressure as well.
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 02:10:28 AM by Gizmo20VT »
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Bische
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2012, 02:31:16 AM »
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When do you see full boost when only running WG pressure?
You are missing out ALOT if it is in fact the .82 housing causing the GT35r spool.. My HTA does 22psi at 3700rpm flat, tuned not to spike. Thats over 1500rpm sooner, given the 2871r is not as responsive as my HTA, you should see 20psi at 4000rpm at least(with a .64 housing).
I replied to your email, didnt you get it?
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 02:32:55 AM by Bische »
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Gizmo20VT
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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2012, 02:56:38 AM »
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On wastegate pressure I see .5 bar (8 psi) at 4000 rpm
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prj
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 04:25:03 AM »
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The check valve on the brake servo line? I have redone the servo line some time back with a New one way valve after deleting the EVAP system. The check valve is inside a round rubber hose that goes to the breather. Remove it and blank off both ends. Edit: In both logs there are different actual boost vs requested, with the exact same configuration. In the log you posted N75 is at 100% duty cycle all the time. This means that nothing you will do with your software is going to increase the spoolup. So it is a hardware issue. Wrong size housing, huge backpressure, leaks between the suction side and pressure side and so on can all cause this. |
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