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Author Topic: 2000 A6 APB 2.94L RS6-R Build/Tune  (Read 78983 times)
pablo53
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« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2013, 11:47:37 AM »

Whoops, It was late, and I posted the wrong log.  Had a little KR enrichment on that one.  It's actually the first time I've ever seen that in a log.

Attached is the correct log.   Actual AFR was flat at 11.3:1.   Zeitronix logs from yesterday got deleted.  I'll just have to get more logs this evening.   

N75 only, MBC was removed in mid-May.
Fueling/MAF are at true values and not underscaled.
In this run, cam advance is at RS4 K-box values.
5/8 tank of 91.
85* F ambient.

 
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prj
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« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2013, 05:07:46 AM »

Yeah, now there is a different log...

1. Linearize boost pid, boost oscillates.
2. Your charge cooling could use some work?
3. 6-15 timing means not too much room left for higher charge pressure either.
4. Your BTS is not really set up correctly, it's active basically all the time, increase the threshold to 800C or so.
5. Try running 0.8 lambda through the pull, your FATS should improve. Watch EGT though.
6. Add timing in the midrange, pull a bit up top.

And my overall impression, and I do not want to take anything away from the effort you put in.
I am not quite feeling this just yet. My RS4 can run the same boost pressure with more timing and cooler IAT's on stock K04's. And they have full boost at 3.5kish.
Your current setup spools 1k later and does not make more power.

I think you need to put w/m injection on it and raise the boost a bit more, so that the big turbo can do it's job. Try revving it higher through the pulls as well.

P.S. Attached log from my car... Ambient was similar to yours that day.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 05:14:44 AM by prj » Logged

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nyet
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« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2013, 12:07:48 PM »

prj: got any logs of what you consider well tuned 91oct cars not running water meth?
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pablo53
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« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2013, 06:29:52 PM »

I really appreciate the feedback.  Will do.  Damn, that is some serious timing you're running.

I won't be adding much more boost at this elevation.  I am seeing 900-920mb ambient pressure - 3:1 PR!

Meth is going in very soon.  I am just waiting on a few parts.

Speaking of meth, here is what I'll be running:
  • Cooling Mist adjustable 200 psi by-pass pump (Shur-Flo)
  • 2 x 4 gph DevilsOwn nozzles/90* Holders
  • 2 x DevilsOwn (crazy expensive) check valves (I have a pair of solenoids and Hobbs switch, too, if I lose too much pressure w the checkvalves)
  • Harris Controls custom pwm controller for 4 bar MAP
  • Summit Racing braided SS/teflon lines and fittings
  • Tapped off the wiper reservoir


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prj
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« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2013, 07:21:06 AM »

I would fit an Aquamist HFS-3, because that devilsown stuff has no failsafe.
If something happens then your motor can easily go the way of the dodo.
You can try to compensate with KFLAMKRL, but I would not always count on it to save you.

The elevation explains things. I am basically at sea level.
My turbos would not be able to hold this amount of boost at elevation.

prj: got any logs of what you consider well tuned 91oct cars not running water meth?

No one in their right mind here runs 91 oct (95 RON) on a tuned car ever.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 07:22:53 AM by prj » Logged

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pablo53
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« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2013, 10:25:27 PM »

I spent some time this week making my SS lines and pump mounts for the meth kit which will go in this weekend.

Before it goes in, I wanted to know for sure what my fuel system is capable of flowing at max capacity.  I also wanted to see how much knock resistance some ethanol blends would add to the equation.   

PRJ was pointing out meth failsafes, so after giving it some thought: What better fail-safe is there than to have a knock-resistant base fuel.    Can it work this way?   

If my fuel system could support X amount of power with E85, then adding water/meth and running E75 or so would be a pretty good failsafe if the anti-knock properties of E75 or E50, etc are known.   I'm also looking into picking up some Bosch Motorsport 970cc dual cone injectors, but anyway, back to today.

So.... I added 8 gallons of E85 to the 5 or so gallons of 91 octane (E10) in my fuel tank.

I calculated that the Walbro 416 would supply plenty of fuel at pressure, but I would max the injectors at 7:1 afr with 400 g/s airmass @ 7000 rpm.

Before filling up, I loaded Phila's map switching file with a couple different calculated KRKTEs in maps 2 and 3.  Filled up, started the car, and waited for the AFR gauge to move up to 17:1, then switched maps.   Worked out perfect.   

It then hit me that ME7 logger wouldn't connect with that file easily.  I took a few partial pulls to see if AFR was reacting and falling into the correct range, then flashed a conservative mid-boost E80-ish file.   I figured I could increase boost and timing slowly and see where I end up before starting to go lean in either bank.

Fast forward 3 hours.

Ambient Temp: 93* F
Ambient Pressure: 924mb
Altitude: 2700 ft
Weight: My brother (190), Me (210), 12 gallons of fuel (78), and the A6 (3759) = 4237 lbs or 1922 Kilos
RPM/MPH: 70.1
Boost: 23 PSI @ 4000 RPM

Wow, after 3 hours and 3 revisions, I gotta say:  Ethanol is the shizzzz.  Virtually no knock.   Amazing, and a dollar cheeper than sheit 91.

  • Check out that torque curve from 3000 rpm
  • Yeah, I have to re-work Boost PID... again
  • Log file is attached for full analysis





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ddillenger
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« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2013, 10:55:36 PM »

Does that FATS say 3.41? On E80?
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pablo53
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« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2013, 11:37:57 PM »

Does that FATS say 3.41? On E80?

I think it says 3.49.....

I couldn't resist taking one more run though.  15 degrees cooler, no passenger, 3/4 tank 0f E80.

3.23 FATST (For Advancement of the Two Seven Turbo, since its an A6)

Edited to attach CSV at the bottom.









« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 11:41:59 PM by pablo53 » Logged
prj
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« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2013, 12:06:36 PM »

If you run E85 then you do not need water/meth.
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pablo53
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« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2013, 03:50:11 PM »

Yeah, I've been thinking about it all day.   Given the benefits, I'm really leaning toward selling off the meth kit and picking up the fueling parts required to run E85 at full boost.


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pablo53
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« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2013, 05:47:56 PM »

After spending a few days messing around with E85, it's now clear why everyone makes the switch. 

Tested the stuff coming out of the pump locally.   That stuff smells horrid - like the cheapest whiskey mixed with diesel.

Picked up the very latest and greatest high tech tester, too.   50ml water, 100 ml E85.   Good to know its full strength.

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pablo53
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« Reply #71 on: July 05, 2013, 10:34:40 PM »

Installed new 980cc Bosch EV14s today.   Billet fuel rails and adjustable fpr should arrive next week, but in the mean time, I took a couple of runs to see what's up.   

I also thought it'd be interesting to try MBC only boost control for the week...   Not really diggin the results.



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pablo53
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« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2013, 09:58:38 PM »

Last Log on Walbro 450 lph pump with stock rails, fuel lines, and FPR.  Bosch 980cc Injectors.

MBC only so I could do several runs back to back while inching up boost.  This last run went slightly lean around 5400 and ended up about 12.5 afr (gas scale).   

EDIT: Meant to also point out that at this power level on E85, that the passenger side bank starts to run much leaner than the driver side.  450-475 whp seems to be the safe limit on this fueling setup.   

Not bad having 375 wtq got from 3500-7000 rpm
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 04:07:28 PM by pablo53 » Logged
MNZ
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« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2014, 10:35:59 PM »

Would just like to say well done and thanks for such great information posting. I am just about to swap a 2.7T Allroad K04 fitted motor in to B5.5 Passat and had planned on E85 map switching also. I do happen to have a 3.0L crank sitting for "when" the engine needs a refresh and also had planned larger turbos at that point.

Your thread has helped me understand the tuning side a lot more.  Grin



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