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prj
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« Reply #105 on: December 10, 2012, 09:24:41 AM »
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I thought EV14s are not stable below 0.7ms and Dekas aren't stable below 1.5ms. -- but hey I am just learning this  Yes, go on, set 630cc dekas to 1.5ms and let me know how you get on.  0.7ms and 1.5ms includes dead time. Minimum effective injection time is something completely different... It is called TEMIN not TIMIN. Down low you have a linearity error, that's what FKKVS is for. I guess once you get a bit more experience you will see why I say what I say. I just felt the need to point this out, so others do not make the same mistake. |
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« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 09:27:51 AM by prj »
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berTTos
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« Reply #106 on: December 10, 2012, 10:21:25 AM »
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Because they are mixing up TE and TI and doing it wrong.
1. take it easy 2. no one is mixing up TE and TI what is the prescribed reference value of TEMIN per the Funktionsrahmen? why is the stock TEMIN value 0.5? |
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #107 on: December 10, 2012, 10:45:59 AM »
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Yes, go on, set 630cc dekas to 1.5ms and let me know how you get on. 0.7ms and 1.5ms includes dead time. Minimum effective injection time is something completely different... It is called TEMIN not TIMIN. Down low you have a linearity error, that's what FKKVS is for. I guess once you get a bit more experience you will see why I say what I say. I just felt the need to point this out, so others do not make the same mistake. What values are you recommending for TEMIN and TEMINVA? |
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masterj
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« Reply #108 on: December 10, 2012, 11:21:12 AM »
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What values are you recommending for TEMIN and TEMINVA?
I would set it to same ms as idle injection time.... Or you can set them to 0, to disable them if you confident that they're not needed  |
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prj
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« Reply #109 on: December 10, 2012, 11:43:19 AM »
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I would set it to same ms as idle injection time.... Or you can set them to 0, to disable them if you confident that they're not needed This is incorrect. You will run rich on ultralight-load if you do this. |
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« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 11:54:58 AM by prj »
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julex
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« Reply #110 on: December 10, 2012, 11:58:26 AM »
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stock TEMIN of 0.5ms effectively disables TEMIN as stock injectors never go this low, regardless how light the load is, before hitting VA and disabling injection altogether. My guess is that Bosch put this in as a feature geared towards injectors unstable below certain pulse width thinking that it is better to run rich than misfire. You should not have to rely on TEMIN at all unless you run dekas |
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #111 on: December 10, 2012, 12:05:46 PM »
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stock TEMIN of 0.5ms effectively disables TEMIN as stock injectors never go this low, regardless how light the load is, before hitting VA and disabling injection altogether. My guess is that Bosch put this in as a feature geared towards injectors unstable below certain pulse width thinking that it is better to run rich than misfire. You should not have to rely on TEMIN at all unless you run dekas Why did people post a few weeks ago that they were setting TEMIN and TEMINVA to .77 for the 60# ev14's @ 4-bar? |
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prj
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« Reply #112 on: December 10, 2012, 12:12:07 PM »
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Why did people post a few weeks ago that they were setting TEMIN and TEMINVA to .77 for the 60# ev14's @ 4-bar? Likely for the same reason why people mash the +% button on KFMIOP. julex is correct, TEMIN is usually used to limit the injector pulsewidth to the lowest possible value where a reliable spray can be obtained and the fueling is deterministic. For 550cc injectors this value is certainly not 0.7ms+lagtime or anything remotely close to that. If you observe said injectors on a bench, that can simulate any pulsewidth you will also see this. |
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julex
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« Reply #113 on: December 11, 2012, 07:50:58 AM »
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Likely for the same reason why people mash the +% button on KFMIOP.
julex is correct, TEMIN is usually used to limit the injector pulsewidth to the lowest possible value where a reliable spray can be obtained and the fueling is deterministic.
For 550cc injectors this value is certainly not 0.7ms+lagtime or anything remotely close to that.
If you observe said injectors on a bench, that can simulate any pulsewidth you will also see this.
Yeah, the only reason why somebody would do 0.77 on 60# injectors is to crotch their improperly implemented, or lack of, TVUB table and force car to run rich on low loads to prevent stalling during clutch in/out/AC on and moving the steering wheel around when in stop.... How do I know? I had dekas once... |
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rnagy86
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« Reply #114 on: December 11, 2012, 10:29:24 AM »
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Yeah, the only reason why somebody would do 0.77 on 60# injectors is to crotch their improperly implemented, or lack of, TVUB table and force car to run rich on low loads to prevent stalling during clutch in/out/AC on and moving the steering wheel around when in stop.... How do I know? I had dekas once...
We are not talking about 60# dekas here. (just as a sidenote so that we don't mix things up in this topic) |
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berTTos
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« Reply #115 on: December 11, 2012, 10:41:11 AM »
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Likely for the same reason why people mash the +% button on KFMIOP.
julex is correct, TEMIN is usually used to limit the injector pulsewidth to the lowest possible value where a reliable spray can be obtained and the fueling is deterministic.
For 550cc injectors this value is certainly not 0.7ms+lagtime or anything remotely close to that.
If you observe said injectors on a bench, that can simulate any pulsewidth you will also see this.
again, i ask - what is the prescribed reference value for TEMIN, per the Funktionsrahmen? if you've had the Ford Racing 47lb (M-9593-G302) EV14 injectors independently flow tested and you know something i don't (data) regarding the pw curve (low slope and high slope) at 4 bar - it would be great if you shared. |
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prj
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« Reply #116 on: December 11, 2012, 11:31:47 AM »
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if you've had the Ford Racing 47lb (M-9593-G302) EV14 injectors independently flow tested and you know something i don't (data) regarding the pw curve (low slope and high slope) at 4 bar - it would be great if you shared. I know a lot about the bosch 500cc and 550cc injectors. Probably tuned about 20 cars on them, and I have seen how they work on a flow bench. For the last time, the 0.7ms quoted in the data sheet has nothing to do with TEMIN. As for sharing - maybe if you change your tone. You are the one challenging simple physics, not the rest of the people in this thread. Acting like someone owes you something is not going to get you very far. |
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« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 11:33:23 AM by prj »
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nyet
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« Reply #117 on: December 11, 2012, 11:34:43 AM »
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As for sharing - maybe if you change your tone.
Oh get over yourself. Its just as annoying to demand that people "change their tone" as to demand free tunes ;P I know BerTTos, and you are seeing an attack where there isn't any. |
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« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 11:38:00 AM by nyet »
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #118 on: December 11, 2012, 11:38:09 AM »
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Oh get over yourself.
as for sharing, we all clearly know wms knows nothing, ohh wait yah, ohh forgot right yah. there ya go... back on our island of knowledgeable insiders that tune 1000hp gtr whatchamacallit's |
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prj
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« Reply #119 on: December 11, 2012, 11:46:00 AM »
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I know BerTTos, and you are seeing an attack where there isn't any. Really, well I think someone is misunderstanding the FR, and is about ready to have a cat fight over it. I am not going to bother to get drawn into such crap. Plain and simple. Yeah sorry, people are opinionated bastards. If I don't like the way someone is talking to me, I am not going to give them anything. You should know me better by now than to post crap which amounts to "you don't want to share because you don't know anything". I think I've contributed plenty to this resource to show otherwise. |
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