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Author Topic: ME7.1: Ignition Dwell  (Read 101836 times)
s5fourdoor
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« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2013, 10:37:12 AM »

just another input from me, in me9 there is no KFSZT, why not just use KFSZT from newer 1,8T, they also have these new coils..
all dwell maps are quite similar to med9...

prj's method turns off KFSZT.  only the maps in my spreadsheet are the ones being used.  the required values are lifted right from the screenshots of prj's 2.0t bin-file on page 2 of this thread.
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marcellus
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« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2013, 02:34:19 PM »

Thank you PRJ and Nahalem.
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prj
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« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2013, 06:47:12 PM »

prj's method turns off KFSZT.  only the maps in my spreadsheet are the ones being used.  the required values are lifted right from the screenshots of prj's 2.0t bin-file on page 2 of this thread.

No, I don't turn off KFSZT, this map is never used in the first place!
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s5fourdoor
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« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2013, 12:13:00 AM »

what that guy said.   lol.

let's keep the spoon feeding going.

are these settings effected by nls/als?
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catbed
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« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2013, 02:08:56 AM »

Here are the locations for 018CH file:

KFTSRL - 1A728
FSWTM - 1A5EF
KFSZDUB - 1A651
FTSDRLW - 16FC8

I will change those maps and test it out with some fresh coils.
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masterj
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« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2013, 02:30:38 AM »

Maybe someone could screenshot maps from fsi golf mkv?
red coils code: 06E 905 115

Or attach defined ols/xdf file Smiley

TIA
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masterj
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« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2013, 04:56:43 PM »

I compared both FR to understand better how to transfer this. Basically what I found is that we should care only about these variables:
SZOUT_W    closing time issue
SZRL_W       corrected closing time for the output angle
SZTCALC_W    Closing in Timer 1 increments

SZOUT_W:
[ME7] FSZTM * KFSZT
[MED] KFSZDUB * min[FSZTM * KFTSRL * (1|1.5|2) (over time TZSUDYN) || TSMX] (this is from audi TFSI 06F906056S)

Since we have no control over time in ME7, we can skip (1|1.5|2) (over time TZSUDYN) part.

SZOUT_W:
[ME7] FSZTM * KFSZT
[MED] KFSZDUB * min[FSZTM * KFTSRL || TSMX]

TSMX = 3.5, so if take this into account then we can simplify everything to:
SZOUT_W:
[ME7] FSZTM * KFSZT
[MED] KFSZDUB * (FSZTM * KFTSRL)[upper limit 3.5]

So if my logic is correct, we would need to multiply FSZTM * KFTSRL and check if there any values > 3.5, if there are then replace them with 3.5 (chnage either FSZTM or KFTSRL). When that is checkd it is time to multiply FSZTM and KFTSRL by KFSZDUB. Both tables we end up with goes to me7 file. Please tell me if im thinkings this right... Also, can someone attached tfsi/fsi file with these maps defined?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 04:58:17 PM by masterj » Logged

catbed
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« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2013, 06:47:23 PM »

I compared both FR to understand better how to transfer this. Basically what I found is that we should care only about these variables:
SZOUT_W    closing time issue
SZRL_W       corrected closing time for the output angle
SZTCALC_W    Closing in Timer 1 increments

SZOUT_W:
[ME7] FSZTM * KFSZT
[MED] KFSZDUB * min[FSZTM * KFTSRL * (1|1.5|2) (over time TZSUDYN) || TSMX] (this is from audi TFSI 06F906056S)

Since we have no control over time in ME7, we can skip (1|1.5|2) (over time TZSUDYN) part.

SZOUT_W:
[ME7] FSZTM * KFSZT
[MED] KFSZDUB * min[FSZTM * KFTSRL || TSMX]

TSMX = 3.5, so if take this into account then we can simplify everything to:
SZOUT_W:
[ME7] FSZTM * KFSZT
[MED] KFSZDUB * (FSZTM * KFTSRL)[upper limit 3.5]

So if my logic is correct, we would need to multiply FSZTM * KFTSRL and check if there any values > 3.5, if there are then replace them with 3.5 (chnage either FSZTM or KFTSRL). When that is checkd it is time to multiply FSZTM and KFTSRL by KFSZDUB. Both tables we end up with goes to me7 file. Please tell me if im thinkings this right... Also, can someone attached tfsi/fsi file with these maps defined?

I don't believe KFSZT is used at all in ME7 because of CW_FUBND = 0. After looking over the FR module, and translating it I agree with prj's explanation a few pages earlier.

KFTSRL is first used as a base, then FWSTM gets applied. Under dynamic load, dwell time is multiplied by the factor ftsdrl, which is taken from FTSDRLW. Next up is KFSZDUB, then KFTSDYN.
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masterj
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« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2013, 01:38:00 AM »

I don't believe KFSZT is used at all in ME7 because of CW_FUBND = 0. After looking over the FR module, and translating it I agree with prj's explanation a few pages earlier.

KFTSRL is first used as a base, then FWSTM gets applied. Under dynamic load, dwell time is multiplied by the factor ftsdrl, which is taken from FTSDRLW. Next up is KFSZDUB, then KFTSDYN.

how CW_FUBND can affect szout_w? I see it only in BAND subfunction

P.S> MED9 FR doesn't have szrlw, so we supposed to exchange it with ME7 szout_w?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 04:02:58 AM by masterj » Logged

masterj
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« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2013, 05:40:12 AM »

Also my theory on KFSZT seems to be work.

Basically what I propose is:
FSZTM = 1s (<= 3.5ms limit)
KFSZT = KFTSRL * KFSZDUB


Attaching my excel that converted values to KFSZT (seems to be OK numbers).

Now back to szrl_w...
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 05:41:59 AM by masterj » Logged

prj
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« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2013, 05:41:29 AM »

Also my theory on KFSZT seems to be work.

Basically what I propose is:
FSZTM = 1s
KFSZT = KFTSRL * KFSZDUB


Attaching my excel that converted values to KFSZT (seems to be OK numbers).

Now back to szrl_w...

Yawn.
KFSZT is not used.
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masterj
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« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2013, 05:42:59 AM »

Yawn.
KFSZT is not used.

Can you show me in FR where it in diagram shows that KFSZT isn't used? unless szout_w isn't used at all by some magic that isn't showed in diagram..
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prj
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« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2013, 05:50:51 AM »

Can you show me in FR where it in diagram shows that KFSZT isn't used? unless szout_w isn't used at all by some magic that isn't showed in diagram..

You need to be able to read the description in german to understand it from the ME7 FR, the diagram alone is not enough.
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masterj
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« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2013, 05:55:28 AM »

You need to be able to read the description in german to understand it from the ME7 FR, the diagram alone is not enough.

so whole szout isn't used or KFSZT = szout? Do we have ASM proof? Because text does not always reflect real things...
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 06:02:45 AM by masterj » Logged

catbed
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« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2013, 07:45:00 AM »

Can you show me in FR where it in diagram shows that KFSZT isn't used? unless szout_w isn't used at all by some magic that isn't showed in diagram..

See the attached file for translated ZUESZ. Here is the snippet describing calculation of dwell time.

Calculation of angle output

The basic closing time for a selected voltage (eg 12 volts) is available in KFTSRL = f (nmot, rl).
The characteristic of the voltage increases FSWTM offer in the cold start and warm-up.
With dynamic load (B_swdy = 1), the closing time is multiplied by the factor ftsdrl until the time of TZSUDYN has expired. As long B_swdy is active, which has been triggered by B_swdy maximum occurred tsdrlmx the source for the factor of FTSDRLW. B_swdy is reset as long as drlsolf_w> DTSDRL is (re-triggering).
Calculated by then closing time is limited by TSMx upwards.

The correction of the influence of Ubatt is by the factor in the characteristic field KFSZDUB. A voltage offset between the measured and the voltage at Ubatt ignition module can be taken into account with DUBZS.

A positive speed gradient is corrected in the map KFTSDYN. The minimum open time limit applies separately to each ignition output.


I have only changed KFTSRL, FSWTM, KFSZDUB, and FTSDRLW and my tsrldyn values were indeed lower. I have not touched KFSZT.
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