S2evo1
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« Reply #165 on: July 12, 2015, 11:30:18 PM »
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I saw higher EGT’s with a 4th gear WOT pull than I did in 3rd (I assume since the time duration of the pull in 4th gear is greater than 3rd gear and heat builds up…) Component protection fuelling? KFDLATRNL KLTATRS KPATRDT TATRIHKS TATRVHKS Mind you, my own experience is based on an S3 8P. I'm not sure which TFSI motors have/don't have EGT sensors  The EGT is calculated as there is no sensor. |
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Nottingham
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« Reply #166 on: July 13, 2015, 01:08:58 AM »
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The enrichment and increased pull-back definitely correlates with the EGTs.
Despite running mixtures more on the rich side (11.76 at high torque and 12.2 at higher revs) the block 112 peaks (999°C) already at 4500rpm and stays there.
The boost is pretty low (1.2bar) as I am just beginning to tune the low end.
In the longer runs the ECU starts to intervene and makes the mixture even richer (low 11 AFR) and the pull-back starts to increase (still moderate <4.5°)
I´ll think I´ll do as the grand master recommends and disable KFLBTS fuelling all together and use purely LAMFA instead.
According to Fotis this provides better control and overall results than using KFLBTS.
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jeroenveer
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« Reply #167 on: July 13, 2015, 03:46:57 AM »
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Does anyone here have the MED9.1 documents?
I need 1 chapter from it, if someone could help me with that!?
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prj
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« Reply #168 on: July 16, 2015, 06:14:56 AM »
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The enrichment and increased pull-back definitely correlates with the EGTs.
Despite running mixtures more on the rich side (11.76 at high torque and 12.2 at higher revs) the block 112 peaks (999°C) already at 4500rpm and stays there.
The boost is pretty low (1.2bar) as I am just beginning to tune the low end.
In the longer runs the ECU starts to intervene and makes the mixture even richer (low 11 AFR) and the pull-back starts to increase (still moderate <4.5°)
I´ll think I´ll do as the grand master recommends and disable KFLBTS fuelling all together and use purely LAMFA instead.
According to Fotis this provides better control and overall results than using KFLBTS. Perfect way to melt engines. Better control? Maybe for those who are not able to calibrate the ECU correctly. Tune the timing map properly, why the hell do you have 4.5 deg retard? This is not normal, it should be 0 or close to it. Calibrate BTS fueling maps with correct targets. Make it so that BTS kicks in only if something is actually wrong (crap fuel etc). Instead of all the time. If you are unable to do this, you should not be tuning Motronic... Turning every safety off is NOT the way to go. |
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overspeed
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« Reply #169 on: July 16, 2015, 10:45:11 AM »
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That´s my thoughs too...
Keep using KFLBTS, just lower KFFDLBTS as it will make corrections on what is on KFLBTS
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majorahole
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« Reply #170 on: July 16, 2015, 11:35:51 AM »
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Perfect way to melt engines. Better control? Maybe for those who are not able to calibrate the ECU correctly.
Tune the timing map properly, why the hell do you have 4.5 deg retard? This is not normal, it should be 0 or close to it.
Calibrate BTS fueling maps with correct targets. Make it so that BTS kicks in only if something is actually wrong (crap fuel etc). Instead of all the time.
If you are unable to do this, you should not be tuning Motronic... Turning every safety off is NOT the way to go.
from what i have read on timing on these is that you want up to 3deg pull?? otherwise you're leaving power on the table. i def read that on here somewhere from a seemingly credible source, but cant recall exactly who. as for me i adjusted LAMFA and then scaled back KFFDLBTS/KFLBTS so it does'nt go crazy rich if bts does come into play, but is still safe if something goes wrong |
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ddillenger
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« Reply #171 on: July 16, 2015, 11:44:42 AM »
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You do want to see corrections, but not on EVERY cylinder, and not for the entire log. Considering most files pull 3 degrees by default for a single knock event, assuming you haven't changed that you're fine.
As for the rest, he was referring to disabling BTS. That'd be foolish as ME7's calculated EGT's are very accurate, and additional enrichment will save the engine long before load reduction will.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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majorahole
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« Reply #172 on: July 16, 2015, 11:52:02 AM »
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You do want to see corrections, but not on EVERY cylinder, and not for the entire log. Considering most files pull 3 degrees by default for a single knock event, assuming you haven't changed that you're fine.
As for the rest, he was referring to disabling BTS. That'd be foolish as ME7's calculated EGT's are very accurate, and additional enrichment will save the engine long before load reduction will.
i was assuming that MED9's EGT calculations weren't very accurate. also, what would i log with VCDS for calculated EGTs? there are at least 2 diff options, but one is something like "median exhaust temp" any idea which one is the more accurate? and i meant i changed KFLBTSLBKO and KFLBTS, btw. i left KFFDLBTS alone |
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Nottingham
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« Reply #173 on: July 16, 2015, 12:46:03 PM »
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So you´re saying disabling KFLBTS is wrong and shouldn´t be done?
Basically the activation threshold for BTS is so low that LAMFA get´s never used while WOT.
That´s was the case when the car was fully stock too.
Currently I´m using KFLBTS to control the fuelling and have it´s pretty much exactly where I want it to be.
I calibrated the ignition maps basically from the scratch (due different turbo characteristics and higher grade fuel).
My pull-back peaks at 4.5 degrees in the longer runs at high gears, however it varies significantly between the cylinders (as usual on TFSI).
I basically have all the mods installed, so I can add more fuel to lower the EGTs at high revs.
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ddillenger
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« Reply #174 on: July 16, 2015, 01:31:58 PM »
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Using BTS as primary fueling is foolish. You basically eliminate an entire layer of protection. Raise the threshold for BTS, use LAMFA for prevention, and BTS for protection..
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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prj
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« Reply #175 on: July 17, 2015, 01:04:30 AM »
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BTS should set to kick in only when it actually gets hot, not all the time.
That means either you've been flooring it for a long time and EGT is going up OR you have a batch of bad fuel with lots of knock retard so that EGT's are high as well.
Why would you disable KFFDLBTS? This is the OCTANE protection map. If you get bad fuel and KFFDLBTS is disabled, you will melt your engine.
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Nottingham
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« Reply #176 on: July 17, 2015, 02:26:29 AM »
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Any idea then why VAG is using BTS all the time at stock?
Initially I tuned by using LAMFA as the main fuelling map, however it kept falling back to BTS so tuning it that way was pretty futile.
Also TAVVKBTS defaults to 1268.5°C (FFFFh) which sounds fishy as FR specifies 900°C for it.
"Bad quality fuel" doesn´t exist where I live (98 RON is bare minimum), so the protection isn´t absolutely mandatory.
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prj
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« Reply #177 on: July 17, 2015, 06:18:45 AM »
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Any idea then why VAG is using BTS all the time at stock? Because it's not tuned how Bosch intended it to. There is only a handful of models where this is the case though. "Bad quality fuel" doesn´t exist where I live (98 RON is bare minimum), so the protection isn´t absolutely mandatory. Let me guess, you can cure cancer too? What happens if one day you fill up with a bad batch of fuel? Octane rating has little to do with it... you don't always win the lottery, and the quality of fuel is not always consistent. Just because it says 98 RON on the station does not mean that the crap they poured in actually is. Anyway, tune how you like, just don't advocate bad practices. As for BTS there are plenty of temperature triggers. Look at the FR how it works. Why you pick a random one is beyond me. |
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 06:20:45 AM by prj »
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overspeed
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« Reply #178 on: July 17, 2015, 06:37:21 AM »
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I skip that, how KFFDLBTS is involved with octane issues ?
My german is ZERO, but my "google translate" portuguese FR make me believe that it was only enrichment based on EGT (KFLBTS enrich past threshold, and KFFDLBTS increase enrich as high as EGT goes up) and as said before EGT is not read, but calculated, so a bad fuel will not make EGT diferent for ECU.
I though knock enrichment was only thing I will be diferent for bad octane fuel.
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Rick
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« Reply #179 on: July 17, 2015, 07:44:37 AM »
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KFFDLBTS is enrichment based on ignition retard, or more correctly spark efficiency.
Rick
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