Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« on: September 28, 2009, 04:28:03 PM »
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I thought I would get this topic started since so many people with B5 S4s want to install meth injection kits.
So some basic info on meth injection:
1) The fluid you inject is going to be a mixture of methanol and water. The water cools the combustion mixture which reduces knock. The methanol increases the octane rating of the combustion mixture which also reduces knock.
2) Methanol is fuel and by injecting it you will run a richer AFR than the ecu is trying to achieve.
3) Oxygen sensors are lambda sensors, not AFR sensors. They read the amount of oxygen remaining in the exhaust gas. When you inject methanol your oxygen sensors will read rich, because the air fuel mixture is rich.
More to come...
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« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 09:57:40 PM by Tony@NefMoto »
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2009, 09:21:13 AM »
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Here is an excellent article that was recently posted on another forum. This is an article written by Labonte Motorsports regarding Meth Injection 101 in Gasoline Engines http://www.labontemotorsports.com/ontrack/WM101.pdfI have also attached the file to this post in case the link breaks. |
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iNSTRUCT
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 09:50:18 PM »
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I understand when adding meth you can pull primary and add timing (and boost) but what modifications do tuners typically make for a custom meth tune? Thanks!
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2011, 12:38:40 AM »
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I just wrote my first k03 meth tune. I sent it to a forum member for testing. I made a conservative first attempt. I added about 6-10* timing or so from about where full boost hits and up... i wanted to make sure his meth kit would be in full spray. Then I pulled fuel from kflbts in the same region. I'm sure it needs to be tweaked but it should be a good start. b5 s4 k03 turbos 17-18 psi spike tapering to 14 91 octane very conservative  91 with meth  91 octane  meth/ conservative since we are not working with wideband yet  |
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« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 01:08:59 AM by judeisnotobscure »
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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julex
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2011, 07:05:45 AM »
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I just wrote my first k03 meth tune. I sent it to a forum member for testing. I made a conservative first attempt. I added about 6-10* timing or so from about where full boost hits and up... i wanted to make sure his meth kit would be in full spray. Then I pulled fuel from kflbts in the same region. I'm sure it needs to be tweaked but it should be a good start. b5 s4 k03 turbos 17-18 psi spike tapering to 14 91 octane very conservative 91 with meth 91 octane meth/ conservative since we are not working with wideband yet You want to add timing until you get significant timing retard WITHOUTH METH, about 6 deg. This will be your fail safe maximum timing value in the situation when you run out of meth or pump fails etc. Then you turn on the meth and enjoy almost knock free engine. Having said that I run about 24deg @ 7k rpms of timing... just to put your values into persepctive. Cheers. |
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2011, 12:15:55 PM »
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Thanks julex
my 93 timing table is a little more dialed than the 91 table (running about 6* up top), but not for long.
I've been working with another member to fine tune the 91 table... I make very conservative changes when i'm tuning, because i'd rather have to make another revision then hurt someones elses car.
I am with you as far as using wmi for making big power, I will get up to about 25* up top after a couple of test runs.
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2011, 08:01:33 PM »
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In another thread nyet suggested using intake air temperature to determine if the car had run out of meth. Then you can use the intake air based timing adjustments to reduce timing in that situation.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2011, 09:28:37 PM »
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link to that thread please, or the map names, and or adresses.
that sounds like the smartest way of doing it.
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 05:58:02 PM »
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 06:29:15 PM »
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Is that a kfzw map... I didn't see the iat correction map for timing in my xdf.
I guess i could use kftarx and just cut load. that will work just as well.
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I have a b5 s4
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2011, 01:04:58 PM »
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As far as I know there is no map that allows you to change timing based on intake air temperature. The best you can do is reduce desired load or maximum boost pressure based on intake air temperature.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2011, 01:34:52 PM »
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I agree, and i will incorporate this into my meth tunes. I can't wait to get meth on my car... should be within a month.
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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nyet
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2011, 03:52:41 PM »
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Question is, can you really tell if your WI is empty (or dead) by just IAT?
If you make it "safe" enough, will you lose power even if WI is properly working? Or do you just dial back enough boost to keep your CFs from maxing out when WI isn't working?
My post was hypothetical; I dont' know if anybody has done it.
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2011, 03:57:23 PM »
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Personally I would rather tune the maps that reduce load and timing based on knock. If you run out of meth, your knock will go up, which would be tuned to dial back your load and timing.
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judeisnotobscure
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2011, 06:36:21 PM »
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Good points... I think I will just have to do some testing to figure out the best combo of knock intervention and iat correction. I'll post back with results after my meth setup is installed.
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I have a b5 s4
but i just want to dance.
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