Jason
Hero Member
Karma: +38/-0
 Offline
Posts: 500
Breaks everything!
|
 |
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2011, 02:03:00 PM »
|
|
|
As far as safety... With stock manifolds or poorly welded tubular manifolds... probably not safe.
It is extremely hard on every component. Extremely. In rally cars it's not uncommon for the turbo temp to quickly jump 400-500 degrees C with the system engaged for launch. Wastegates can be destroyed if the system is effective enough to generate more boost than desired. EGT sensors will have reduced life. Turbine wheels will crack over time regardless of exotic alloys derived from moon rocks... And the rapid heating/cooling of the exhaust is going to leave it more prone to cracking.
But I have personally seen a car maintain 2 bar between shifts... and it is awesome. Basically if you're a drag racer running 10.01's and need to break into the 9's, or somebody else is paying to fill your go-fast-crackpipe then it's a great thing.
For the rest of us, it's amusing but not practical at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Rick
|
|
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2011, 02:39:12 PM »
|
|
|
Ok, just tested! You do not need any retard for launch! I am getting 2 bar while stationary!!! Also, flat shift is incredible - I took some ECUX logs so will have a look and post them, but meanwhile have a look at this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihBmmrbJccU |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Rick
|
|
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2011, 03:26:00 PM »
|
|
|
OK, had a look at the ECUx logs.
Throttle stays wide open during gear change, injectors stay on, absolutely NO boost drop off - it just stays flat - currently at 22psi.
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jason
Hero Member
Karma: +38/-0
Offline
Posts: 500
Breaks everything!
|
|
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2011, 03:28:37 PM »
|
|
|
Did you notice decreased shift effort on the WOT upshift compared to a WOT upshift without the antilag?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Rick
|
|
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2011, 03:43:48 PM »
|
|
|
Jason, yes.
I am actually very surprised just how well this works. The speed through the gears feel a lot quicker. This is going to add a few mph onto the 1/4 terminal i think.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
robin
Full Member
Karma: +20/-1
Offline
Posts: 139
|
|
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2011, 03:52:08 PM »
|
|
|
Hahaha, holy shit. This is fantastic. Blew my tires away in 1st gear, then blew the clutch away the 2nd time I tried it.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Rick
|
|
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2011, 04:02:49 PM »
|
|
|
ECUX log attached.
You can see over 20psi of boost and full throttle at the start whilst stood still. I then accelerate into 4th flat out.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
ElementalVoid
Jr. Member
Karma: +9/-0
Offline
Posts: 43
|
|
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2011, 05:31:20 PM »
|
|
|
Is there any way to reduce te amount of boost that is produced? I have no desire to shear off anything in my drivetrain but would like to be able to benefit from antilag when I go to the track. It would be great if there was a way to scale it down to say 8-10 PSI. Also given the severity of antilag, is the general suggestion not to do this if you still have a cat? I'm running piggie pipes but I still have the main cat. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jason
Hero Member
Karma: +38/-0
Offline
Posts: 500
Breaks everything!
|
|
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2011, 05:38:12 PM »
|
|
|
To be honest, I think the amount of boost is irrelevant as that incident occurred with no boost.
Myself and several others have launched thousands of times with no issues... But I will say there are a few things to consider:
If you're going to be launching frequently you should make sure you have good low deflection engine, trans, and rear differential mounts. I would also run a billet differential carrier. 034 makes one for about $300. If the carrier breaks, you're looking at a new propshaft, new rear drive axles, new carrier, and maybe even the entire differential housing. $300 is cheap insurance.
If you have a twin plate clutch with unsprung ceramic discs, or an aggressive unsprung clutch consider a clutch delay valve - it will make driving the car easier, and will reduce the shock on the drivetrain by briefly slipping the clutch on launch.
If you're going to launch, prepare to buy spare parts.
Don't launch your daily driver unless you have a spare car and AAA.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
julex
|
|
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2011, 07:04:43 PM »
|
|
|
[Good advices....]
[..."consider a clutch delay valve"...]
I will be soon putting fx700 with two unsprung ceramic discs. I know I screwed myself here buying very good condition used clutch for real cheap but it is the harshest engagement they make for "small" twin so maybe not as bad as same Fx850, but still. Who sells these valves, I believe USP had one or maybe JHM. They are adjustable right? Or do you think Clutchmasters quoting me for replacement one kevlar/one ceramic discs for 450 makes more sense? Thanks. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 10:48:22 AM by Tony@NefMoto »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jason
Hero Member
Karma: +38/-0
Offline
Posts: 500
Breaks everything!
|
|
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2011, 07:18:52 PM »
|
|
|
I have the FX850 with twin solid ceramics... and it is a bitch on the street. I asked about carbon and couldn't really get a firm answer on how much it would cost. My only problems with it have been with the crappy slave cylinders I've been buying. I have been trying to decide what delay valve to install. While I use the tried and true clutch slip method called "driving" I find that I am still not as consistent as I'd like. Enter the CDV which will band-aid my poor driving. Tilton has one for $165. Clutchmasters has one for $168: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TIL-90-5000http://www.clutchmasters.com/custom/documents/FCV2000diagram.pdfI'm not sure that "3" steps of adjustment are enough. Also since I hate carburetors, anything with a jet I hate transitively. I am leaning towards the tilton, because it looks like the easiest to install and less likely to leak - buy new clutch hydraulic hose, have hose shop crimp AN fittings on it, drink beer, install, spend 5 hours bleeding, profit.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
julex
|
|
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2011, 07:41:20 PM »
|
|
|
[...]FX850[...]
Sprung ceramic and solid kevlars are option for FX850, you know that right? I know it involves PITA tranny (or whole thing) removal but might be the best option to replace these. Regarding your info on low-deflection mounts... you mean like hard poly rear diff mount if better than soft mount? I would think that more cushioning is desired for hard engaging clutch like two solid ceramics to soften the blow. Anyway, some info on FX850 (I found it pretty informational on the subject of what config you can get): http://audiboost.com/content.php?268-Clutch-Masters-Twin-Disk-Series-FX850-**FULL-REVIEW-DIY** |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Jason
Hero Member
Karma: +38/-0
Offline
Posts: 500
Breaks everything!
|
|
« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2011, 08:12:14 PM »
|
|
|
Yeah... I am lazy  . I was one of the first to run this clutch back in January of 09, so my only option was unsprung ceramic at the time. Since I had exploded an RS4 pressure plate and poked a nice window in my bellhousing I was very adamant about buying the most badass clutch I could find. This clutch behaves much better than the aggressive clutches that use rs4 or equiv pressure plates. I would have changed it already but my garage is full of my other junk project cars and there's no real room to work. My only real beef is the klanky noise at idle, and screeching when engaging. It doesn't chatter much, if at all. But it is hard to modulate. I run my own snub mount, modified Stasis engine mounts, 034 trans mounts, an energy suspension poly mount on my ASP drivetrain stabilizer, and apikol diff mounts. I would actually prefer less slop in the drivetrain but do not yet have the cajones for solid mounts. I also run spherical bearings instead of bushings in the suspension, so NVH additions are something I try to avoid. As far as the soft mounts - you do not want that rear diff moving at all. I ruined a propshaft because the soft mounts allowed the pinion angle to change enough to damage the CVJ. Then I had a really terrible vibe around 40mph and had to scrap that propshaft. I suspect that extreme movement is also what blows up the rear diff as in the pic I posted. Also, when you install your clutch, pay attention to the flywheel bolts - CM had sent me the wrong length bolts (they were too long and bottomed out in the crank) and stock bolts did not work either. I ended up using Ford Pinto 2L flywheel bolts - ARP kit 151-2801 (2 kits since they only come with 6 bolts) which can be ordered from Summit. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
julex
|
|
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2011, 09:04:37 PM »
|
|
|
I remember your posts about bolts. My used kit seems to check out. I measured everything I possibly could including bolts lengths (exact as stock when sticking out of FW, keeping old junk parts pays out!), pressure on plate splines distance to hub in relaxed position, compressed splines (at release point) distance to hub (almost 1/2 difference there so I am sure the clutch is pretty good), wear on surfaces (you can only notice change in color but maybe 1/64 is that wear on any surface) and all the other stuff. Albeit I think that two solid ceramic surfaces might be brutal on 850, it will be quite a bit less of punishment on 700 since there is a lot less of contact surface there so it will slip more before engagement. And as far and I understand, there discs are designed to slip all the time (within reasonable temps ofc) without much wear. I sent an email to CM inquiring about just getting one fiber kevlar disc and if they say ~300 I will just get it, put the sucker against PP and have a piece of my mind. Oh... and this all is for an allroad btw |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 10:51:44 AM by Tony@NefMoto »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
