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DJGonzo
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« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2011, 11:30:46 AM »
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Noobs:
If there is an influx of noob questions that become repetitive, then that just shows that the wiki or forum needs more information to help new users get started. If we can educate noobs on what it really means to tune a car, then they can learn to do it themselves, or they can learn the value of what a real tuner does. If more people know what it takes to tune a car, and the value that a skilled tuner provides, then hopefully more of them will be willing to pay a skilled tuner, instead of random person on eBay.
Nope, if we get a noob influx, I guarantee you 120% they will ignore wiki and stickies and come and ask dumb questions like "Where can I get free tunez for my VEEDUB yo". Spoonfeeding attracts undesirable people. Period. I've seen this happen in a million other places. With that said, this is not my site so I won't be the one worrying about getting my site flooded with n00bs and the more intelligent/knowledgeable folks leaving. Make the knowledge available, yes. Say no to spoonfeeding though. Unless you want to attract people like this:  |
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2011, 11:31:07 AM »
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PS: One thing I would really like to see come out of this community is recognition of skilled professional tuners. If companies like Eurodyne are going to push the envelope with anti-lag, while other companies just sell the same thing they did 5 years ago with a bad idle, we need to be promoting Eurodyne.
If noobs can't tune their cars themselves, and we don't want to promote bad tuners or copying of tunes without credit, then we need to help the noobs know who they should be paying their money to.
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nyet
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« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2011, 12:09:26 PM »
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I've seen this happen in a million other places.
I've not seen any site that has well written Motronic guides. Only "what's in it for me" responses. |
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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DJGonzo
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« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2011, 12:15:40 PM »
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I've seen this happen in a million other places.
I've not seen any site that has well written Motronic guides. Only "what's in it for me" responses. I wasn't talking specifically about sites about Motronic tuning guides but other 'scene' websites. |
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nyet
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« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2011, 12:20:54 PM »
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I wasn't talking specifically about sites about Motronic tuning guides but other 'scene' websites.
I was specifically talking about other motronic tuning "scene" websites  They're run by (and inhabited by) glass bead trading game wankers who want you to learn the secret handshake and swear to their "pro-tuner" brand of secrecy/idiocy. There's no documentation because "that would be giving it away for free, and what's in it for me, I have to recoup my $10k of money I spent on rumor and innuendo" The worse the documentation, the more annoying the noobs are, because you can't say "read this first". Good documentation takes care of 90% of those noobs. the remaining 10% can simply be ignored. If, on the other hand, your site culture has a "i'll tell you if you give me something in return" aspect, you'll get the same question asked 100000000x by noobs, and it will never be answered satisfactorily. |
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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Matt Danger
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« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2011, 12:23:28 PM »
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Nope, if we get a noob influx, I guarantee you 120% they will ignore wiki and stickies and come and ask dumb questions like "Where can I get free tunez for my VEEDUB yo".
Spoonfeeding attracts undesirable people. Period. Simple moderation can filter the noise and set the tone. |
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NOTORIOUS VR
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« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2011, 12:30:15 PM »
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I was specifically talking about other motronic tuning "scene" websites They're run by (and inhabited by) glass bead trading game wankers who want you to learn the secret handshake and swear to their "pro-tuner" brand of secrecy/idiocy. There's no documentation because "that would be giving it away for free, and what's in it for me, I have to recoup my $10k of money I spent on rumor and innuendo" The worse the documentation, the more annoying the noobs are, because you can't say "read this first". Good documentation takes care of 90% of those noobs. the remaining 10% can simply be ignored. If, on the other hand, your site culture has a "i'll tell you if you give me something in return" aspect, you'll get the same question asked 100000000x by noobs, and it will never be answered satisfactorily. Well said! |
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TTQS
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« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2011, 01:19:43 PM »
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Some good debate here guys. I'd like to add a few points of my own:
I've spent some time researching Motronic operation and tuning, but I'm still no way near confident enough to tinker with my own car and there's NO WAY I would download anything off the internet and flash it straight onto my car without applying a lot of checks and balances first. I trust the professionals, so newbies are operating at some risk just leeching off amateur internet tuning sites. It's not so much that I think that members are average tuners, it's just that internet forums are impersonal places and cowboys can hide behind cloaks of anonymity.
In the space of a few days, I've had PMs from two 'noobs'. I won't name users but one offered polite, sincere and profuse thanks for a contribution I made. The other, in stark contrast, was an offhand, irritating, desperate leecher.
Guess which I replied to?
Third, the previous forum I was a member of had a lot of technical information and social chat. I left for various reasons but up there on the long list of issues were the number of noobs asking the same old boring questions. Lack of basic technical & engineering knowledge and judgement irritated me intensely. E.g. a guy removed a 19 kg rear corner balance weight from a front heavy car, found the car went light at the back end during cornering and proudly proclaimed this to be a job well done. Two pages of calculations later refuting this idiocy and all you get is sarcasm, flamed and dumbass comments like "weight is weight!!!!!"
I hope you all appreciate how much of an enlightened bunch you guys seem after two years of that crap. :-)
Doug
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« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 01:25:12 PM by TTQS »
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carlossus
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« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2011, 02:17:26 PM »
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I'm loving this debate. Nyet nailed it for me in his last post. As for the inevitable bottom feeders, could the SMITE ranking be used to quickly mute persistent poor behaviour?
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DJGonzo
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« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2011, 02:28:43 PM »
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I'm loving this debate. Nyet nailed it for me in his last post. As for the inevitable bottom feeders, could the SMITE ranking be used to quickly mute persistent poor behaviour?
A simple 'rep' feature will not stop anyone from asking dumb questions or being a jerk. Real moderation will be needed in the near future. |
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Tony@NefMoto
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2001.5 Audi S4 Stage 3
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« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2011, 11:47:55 AM »
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Ultimately I am unsure what is the best way to prevent blatant copying of tunes and noobs that come to the site for nothing but free files. But the more I restrict that kind of thing, the more we restrict tuning development. People find this site through word of mouth and google search, if the content is not openly searchable then no one will find it. Forcing development or analysis of tuned files to be private, will prevent skilled people from ever finding the topics to join in the discussion on.
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julex
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« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2011, 07:16:44 PM »
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The more I think about it the more convinced I am that putting probation where you cannot post/message on new accounts is the way to go. It would have to be a significant amount of time like 1 week or so so that "idiots" lose interest but people genuinely interested in the matter will either wait or find other means to speed up the process.
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nyet
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« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2011, 09:14:03 PM »
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For the record, not a fan of any kind of moderation.
It just gives people a game to play, and moderators will be forced to waste their whole day playing the MMORPG that is the moderation game.
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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DJGonzo
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« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2011, 09:17:33 PM »
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For the record, not a fan of any kind of moderation.
So you are a fan of noobdom and havoc then?  |
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