Indeed. I stand corrected!


Which imo, makes no sense... if the correction is in desired load->requested boost, it should be in PR limit -> load limit...

I think fpbrkds *should* affect PR limit -> load limit, because the resulting requested boost limit should be constrained by PR limits, regardless of anything else ..

But I assume the motronic folks are smarter than me, so i guess there is a reason they omitted it from the PR limit->load limit path.

Still wrong. You are reading text translations and assuming you understand concepts.

mimax_w from KFMIOP is CLEARLY the desired torque limit. It limits mifa_w in MDFAW.

MDZUL sets the torque monitoring limit that you decided doesn't exist.

You neglected to provide this KL that caps "KFMIOP".

You did however prove my point regarding BGPLGU. This is used in the boost PID and has no impact on desired load.

Are you saying that the proper way limit boost for altitude is in the PID!?

No, the PID should always work to make the process variable equal the setpoint. The function that you're referring to needs to be tuned properly for that to happen, but it will not do anything to prevent the turbo from overspinning.

The proper way to compensate desired load/target boost pressure for altitude is KFLDHBN. This will allow a lower desired load and ultimately may limit target boost pressure in response to a lower ambient pressure.

So here we go.. This is what I said:

"That's way off. The purpose of kfmiop is not at all related to torque monitoring. If there's serious errors within kfmiop, there will be torque monitoring conditions met but kfmiop's job isn't too detect it. The purpose of kfmiop is to take a torque % and make it relative to load."

In which way is this wrong, specifically? Is kfmiop a 'watchdog' for torque monitoring? no. The purpose of kfmiop is to take a torque % and make it relative to load. Seriously, that's it. Forget about the Funktionsrahmen and picking apart variable names, look at how the theory of how the ECU works.

This torque % is used within the torque model. Without kfmiop being the 'inverse' to kfmirl, the ECU would have no way of modeling a torque value vs a load %. From a given % of load, there is a % of torque. This % torque is multiplied against a value within the ECU, in this case MDNORM and this is where the ECU gets it's actual torque output in Nm. This is especially critical in MED17. This is how any modern ECU operates. Look at SIMOS8/10/12/18 and you'll see it has it's very own version of kfmiop/kfmirl.

----------------

Alright, so here is what I said - "As far as using kfldhbn for a load cap, it doesn't cap load. It caps absolute pressure and doesn't care what altitude you're at. If you want to adjust how the ecu reacts to altitude changes look at BGPLGU module."

This is your response to me mentioning the BGPLGU module. -

"You did however prove my point regarding BGPLGU. This is used in the boost PID and has no impact on desired load."

When did I ever say BGPLGU had anything to do with load? plgru_w feeds into LDRPID. You want to change boost pressure based off of altitude? The maps/methods to do it are right there in what I said in the previous post. Ironically, on 2013+ B8.5 A4/A5 there is an actual cap for N75 based off of ambient pressure.

What if I told you I had as much experience as any of the knowledgeable posters? What if I have hundreds of MED9/MED17 tuned cars (1.4TSI,1.8TSI,2.0TFSI,2.0TSI,2.5TFSI,4.0TFSI) on different continents (at different elevations)? I don't have any real experience with ME7, but in this case the core concepts are the same. I'm not insulting your intelligence, I'm not being arrogant or pounding my chest with accomplishments. I corrected a post to help the OP. You're getting incredibly defensive and assuming a lot of things I never actually said. So just to reiterate, I'm not insulting. Perhaps I did insult the guy I corrected earlier in the thread but that =/= you.

Oh BDIX727...

Let me start by saying that I am in no way defensive or feel insulted. I'm just correcting inaccurate information.

Also, you being a founder of all modern engine management has no relevance to this discussion.

On top of that, I haven't simply memorized variable names. I think I've clearly displayed a knowledge of the big picture and functionality of these processes. I only used variable names, along with description of origin and purpose, to be specific.

Picking apart sentences in a vacuum does not work. Read the thread again and it will all make sense. You're quoting things way out of order.

KFMIOP is definitely related to torque monitoring. Yes, looking at basis of the map, it converts differing forms of load to equivalent forms of torque. No, it is not s watchdog itself, however, this output is directly used in torque monitoring.

KFLDHBN was mentioned regarding limiting load vice LDRXN. You proceed to say that it doesn't limit load (which it does), claim that it limits absolute pressure (huh?), and it doesn't care about altitude (ambient pressure is literally a factor). Then go on to speak on the base boost pressure maps used in the boost PID, as if the setpoint and not the target value should be adjusted.


Come on man, I'm not gonna sit here and mince words with you. You were wrong. It's ok. I'm wrong sometimes too, but that's not what's important. The only thing important is that accurate information is posted in the end.

I can count the number of posts here that have made me go "oh shit" out loud on one hand. This is one of them.

BDIX727:

It's very obvious you have a better than average grasp of what's going on here. Please don't take offense where none is (or at least was) intended.

Phila:

As far as I'm concerned you can say/do whatever you want. Same thing applies though. Perceived attacks!=actual attacks. I think we've all been a bit smug at one point or another.

Bottom line:

The nature of this site as it is, there's always going to be a bit of dick measuring. It's all in good fun. I don't think any of us is done learning. If you believe you have......

This is exactly what I want to avoid. PM only is a gigantic waste of time and effort (read my sig why I feel this way), and brings us back to where we were 20 years ago. I can't stress this enough. Glass bead trading and secret handshakes. It is terrible that people with the biggest egos are the ones who so quickly get them bruised and play the "I'm taking my ball and going home" game

Guys, please. Step back a second and take a deep breath.

Yes. This is a unique place BECAUSE people often forgo PMs and discuss things openly, IMO. As far as I know, no other place exists like it (at least for tuning european cars). The tendency is to get into an argument, then eschew any public discussion, and suddenly, only tiny closed cliques end up exchanging information, and none of it is ever documented or explained publicly.

To that extent, any toxic atmosphere and unnecessary drama discourages open communication. I'm hoping that with that in mind, we can keep it positive and constructive.