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Author Topic: Reading ME 7.5.10  (Read 41154 times)
prj
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2012, 04:03:31 PM »

Trying to fix hardware problems by accessing ECU calibration is the most backwards way there is.
If the ECU is stock and the binary is verified to be OK, then leave it alone. It is not your ECU, it is something broken with your car.

Your vibration can be a dual mass flywheel on the way out, uneven compression, dirty injectors, bad spark plugs and so on.
The ECU is the last place to check for such things, as by doing this you are basically saying that Skoda and VAG did not know what they were doing when they were calibrating this engine, and this is a pretty bold statement.
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esilviu
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« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2012, 05:22:56 AM »

I perfectly agree with you. We will clearly try to solve the hardware problem (the route cause), it's my opinion too.
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abalogh
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« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2012, 02:55:48 PM »

Trying to fix hardware problems by accessing ECU calibration is the most backwards way there is.
If the ECU is stock and the binary is verified to be OK, then leave it alone. It is not your ECU, it is something broken with your car.

Your vibration can be a dual mass flywheel on the way out, uneven compression, dirty injectors, bad spark plugs and so on.
The ECU is the last place to check for such things, as by doing this you are basically saying that Skoda and VAG did not know what they were doing when they were calibrating this engine, and this is a pretty bold statement.

Hi prj and esilviu,

Yes, you are right in general but it was a final workaround trying to eliminate the vibrations. But here is the complete story. I would be glad if you could advise some more things to find the real reason.

I've noticed this vibration when the car were 4 years old (ran about 38000 Kms). The engine has not started correctly and viblated severly. I've stopped and for the second case it started correctly. There were no DTC. When this happens 4-th case there were a DTC about random misfires.
So first the throttle body was cleaned and the spark plugs were changed. Everything OK for 2 or 3 months but then the vibration were noticed again and happened once or twice a month. Then the following parts were changed or checked:
Ignition coils were changed in pairs (two at a time) - all was correct.
Injectors were cleaned with a STP injector cleaner.
Coolant temperature sensor was checked - it was OK.
Checking the fuel pump pressure - it was OK (1,5 - 3 bar).
Fuel filter was changed.
Injectors were cleaned with an ultrasonic cleaner.
Checking the Manifold Air Pressure - it was correct. But finally I've changed the MAP sensor (by an original BOSCH made one) despite the correct pressure values, but the vibrations remained.
The compression and the pressure drop was checked by cylinders - it was OK.
The vacuum pipe of fuel pressure regulator was checked - it was OK. (See the problem of livslx)

Meanwhile I noticed that the vibrations happen when the engine starts at ~900 RPM (not 1200 RPM). Then I investigated that engine starts lower RPM than 1200 when the coolant temperature is lower than 18°C.
After that my car mechanic (who knows my car from its early ages) says that there could be only the ECU which causes this problem. We thought that it is not normal that the engine starts at lower RPM than 1200 but finally it turned out that it is normal (see later).
Then the car was checked by an official Skoda Service and a specialist who could detect the vibrations but he could not find any faulty signal or value during the tests.

After that I replaced the ECU by a new one (exactly the same as the original of the car (036 906 032J 4413). Nothing has changed. The engine behaves the same way.

Meanwhile livslx checked his car (an AXP Golf) cold start procedure and he said that his engine behaves the same way. It can start at ~1000 RPM when the coolant temperature is lower than 10~15°C. And I asked my friend (who has a BCA Octavia newer than mine) to check the cold start of his car and he confirmed what livslx said. So it is normal that at lower temperatures the engine starts at lower RPM but it seems that the RPM value and the temperature limit slightly differs by cars.

After that I've increased (+20 RPM) the idle speed and there was no vibration ever since (six months). Now I'm curious what will happen in winter.

(There is no dual mass flywheel in my car.)

So if you have any good idea what could be the real reason of these vibrations or you think that I missed something to test please post it. And I'm also curious about what you, esilviu, will find as a reason of this problem.
Thanks in advance.

Best regards,



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esilviu
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« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2012, 01:44:49 PM »

Hi abalogh,



After you enumerated all the actions you've done, it's very difficult to to say what could be the route cause, practically you eliminated all possible causes, and after you changed the ECU, with a new one - it's clear that it has nothing to do with the ECU.

Also, I started to believe that is normal, when is colder outside, the engine to start at lower rpm than when is warmer, and I will tell you why, today in the morning when I started the engine at 9.5 degrees C outside temperature, it revved at 950 rpm,
so I will put under observation with logs-tests on vag com like coolant temp, air intake temp, outside temp, cold start rpm in different days/temps, unfortunately lately I was very busy with my work and this is not my daily running car to observe its comportment , but as soon as I will have some more time I will start the logs and post my findings here.

Concerning your engine, it's a little bit strange that vw/skoda specialists wasn't able to correctly diagnose the cause - I have a few question  for you
-what year is your car
-how many km has your car, did you change your timing belts and water pump
-If I correctly understood your engine vibrates only on cold start not revved more than 1000 rpm,
if you accelerate over 1000 rpm when engine is cold , no vibration, and also when your engine gets warmer and rpm drops to 750 rpm at idle , as normal, no vibration ?

I will ask a friend of mine which works in a vw service center about your engine's symptoms

I'll keep you in touch

Best Regards.
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abalogh
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2012, 12:28:51 PM »

Hi esilviu,

Thanks for your reply, and it will be greatly appreciated if you can find and post more information regarding this issue.
Regarding your questions:
- My car is a 2003 made Skoda Octavia with BCA engine.
- It was 4 years old and had been run 38000 Kms when I noticed the vibrations at cold start first.
- Timing belts were changed at 2009 (53000 Km). Water pump was not changed.
- Yes, it seems that the engine vibrates only when it revs lower than 1000 RPM, but not every case, about 1 or 2 times a months. But in this case the speed cannot be increased. It is better to stop and restart the engine. If the engine starts normally, even if at 910 RPM, when the temperature reaches 32°C the revolution drops to 800 and then to 750 RPM.
Sometimes there are small vibrations after the cold start. In this case if I increase the engine speed there are no vibrations at higher RPMs.

I'm waiting for your findings. Thanks.

Best regards,
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esilviu
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« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2012, 12:06:40 AM »

Hi abalogh,

Sorry for long time absence in the forum, but I just had some problems - I just added 3 more penalty points to my driving licence making a total of 15, and now for 30 days I will not be able to drive a car Angry  till 25th of Nov.

From my understanding this vibrations occur only 1,2 times /month and when occur is not possible to rev the engine, being necessary to restart the engine, is that correct? 
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abalogh
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« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2012, 07:03:23 AM »

Hi esilviu,

It is not a good news regarding your penalty. It seems that October wasn't so lucky months because I've got a penalty too  Sad.

Regarding the vibrations: yes, you understand it well. The vibrations directly caused by misfires (checked by VAG-COM) but what the misfires caused by....?
If there are only small vibrations no misfires can be detected.

Best regards,
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esilviu
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« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2013, 02:28:48 PM »

Hello Abalogh, I saw that you changed your ECU , did you have the pin code for the replacement ECU , or did you read its 95040 EEPROM with ArgDub's tool and find the pin this way , if yes did you read it through the OBD port?
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abalogh
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« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2013, 12:42:53 AM »

Hi esilviu,
I used VAGdashCAN-COM (chinese version) to read the pin from my original ECU. The replacement ECU was a brand new one so it did not contained any pin. I've only overwritten the 95040 with the contents of the original ECU's 95040 using VAGdashCAN.
(To be honest I've tried this earlier with a used ECU and it failed. Somebody has cleared the pin from the used ECU, but in this case VAGdashCAN could not overwrite the 95040.)
Yes, VAGdashCAN uses OBDII port.
I hope I could help you.
Regards,
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esilviu
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« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2013, 01:53:54 AM »

Thanks very much Abalogh , I just bought a spare ECU 036 906 032 BJ advertised as brand new so normally without pin or VIN and IMMO number inside , this can be installed in the car with vag com , all you need to know is your original pin number - image attached. Later when received and tried to install I discovered with vag com that it was installed in a car before so it contains a pin which I don't know yet a VIN and an IMMO number showed by vag com. So for the moment is not possible to install it in the car as I don't know the pin in order to be paired with the cluster .
That's why I will try this weekend to read the content of the 95040 EEPROM - via OBD port as I don't want to open the ECU box - in order to decode the pin number with DDillenger procedure, the reading will be done with ArgDub's tool .
All this because ECU bought is not brand new as advertised with virgin 95040 EEPROM it proved that it has been paired to another car before  Angry
I will post the results here if it will be a successful reading 
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abalogh
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« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2013, 06:04:51 AM »

Hi,
I'm curious about your results.
(ArgDub's tool works not only in boot mode!?)
Best regards,
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esilviu
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« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2013, 07:37:47 AM »

Check the last post on this link:  http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1168.270#msg38078  - DDillenger point me that it can be done in both way boot mode and/or over OBD port , the difference is in the speed , over the OBD port the speed will be decreased .

All the best 
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esilviu
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« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2013, 12:13:10 PM »

Hi ,
This morning I succeeded, from the first time, to read the EEPROM of my spare ECU 036 906 032 BJ with ArgDub's tool and a dumb K-Line cable and decoded the SKC with DDillenger guide.

More details in the link bellow
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=1168.285

Thanks a lot

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abalogh
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« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2013, 01:56:40 PM »

Congratulation esilviu!
I'm happy to hear that this method works fine on ME 7.5.10.
Best regards,
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