Westfarmracing
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2014, 10:52:01 AM »
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I fixed dhbn (i see i made a mistake there) and changed kumsrl for 3.0, that helped a lot. But this engine was originally built for e85, so i had trouble with KR at very low boost and timing. The conclution is that its an alcoholic, and needs to be treated that way  New fuel system and bigger injectors are going in for running on e85. And i have this theory that aftermarket pistons are noisier and make the knock voltages go up. Because it was high when it shouldnt even at low load.. The pistons are indeed shorter and have more clearance, so it makes sense to me. Anyone with experience? |
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2014, 07:20:25 AM »
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I also have forged pistons and I think they make a lot more noise.
If I look in vcds, some of cyl have 3 times more voltage than the others on Idle.
Also on boost, it is the same, very high voltage readings.
You could alter those tables and lower sensitivity, but I don't care about it.
It does not disturb my engine running e85.
Forged pistons also have more clearens to wall vs OEM pistons due to a diff material behavior with temperatures. Hense forged engines sound more on coldstarts and use more oil.
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 07:23:09 AM by Mocke »
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Westfarmracing
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2014, 12:22:43 AM »
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That's exactly what I meant. Knock voltages are high, and i'm not sure if it's piston clearance or actual knock volts.. We decided not to risk it now and will be running e85 instead. Nice not to have to worry about knock, and I know this engine puts out Nice numbers on boose  It's the same With a 2-liter aeb stroker we have, its over 9,5cr and we tried to dyno it on 98oct and it knocked, we tried lowering timing resulting in heat and immediate turbo-spool. Never came out of it, decided to go for e85 and dynoed 550hp without problem on that one This is an s4 engine, not rs4. Going to check the injector sheet here now, and order something Direct-fit ASAP. |
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 12:24:17 AM by Westfarmracing »
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2014, 12:27:32 AM »
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Boose rules!!  |
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rnagy86
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2014, 12:32:03 AM »
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You can always check if you are having actual knock with an earphone.
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Westfarmracing
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2014, 12:56:53 AM »
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You can always check if you are having actual knock with an earphone.
Yes i know, I am roadtuning it, doesn't have a dyno but I Guess detcans work on the road as well.. |
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julex
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2014, 08:20:37 AM »
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so RS4 injectors on 3.0L? RS4 injectors wouldn't be waaaaay too small for any serious boost even on 2.7t? Have you logged your lambda/AFR with external wideband o2 sysstem? b/c it surely looks to me like you are leaning out badly if you're requesting 0.78 lambda and car is kicking in system protection and brings fueling down to 0.65 lambda but without effect since you're probably out of injector IDC already.
Can you log injectors and egt sensors too?
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Westfarmracing
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2014, 02:43:24 PM »
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so RS4 injectors on 3.0L? RS4 injectors wouldn't be waaaaay too small for any serious boost even on 2.7t? Have you logged your lambda/AFR with external wideband o2 sysstem? b/c it surely looks to me like you are leaning out badly if you're requesting 0.78 lambda and car is kicking in system protection and brings fueling down to 0.65 lambda but without effect since you're probably out of injector IDC already.
Can you log injectors and egt sensors too?
It is empty on fuel also yes. The idea was to drive it at 480-500cr hp over the winter on rs4 injectors and do a makeover in the spring, i had these injectors on my rs4 with same turbos at just over 500 before, so figured it would work on this too, but no. Anyways, ordered 1000cc injectors, tfsi coils and surge-tank now of course i had a wideband in it, and yes, it was leaning out upwards so i stopped it there. It was never supposed to see any serious boost for now, didn't even go medium boost  |
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 02:47:40 PM by Westfarmracing »
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julex
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2014, 07:43:57 AM »
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Well, so that explains everything. You're probably getting so much timing pull due to leaning out that car tries to limit torque as it reached a limit to what it can pull on timing (12 degree is max in stock tune).
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AudiMan85
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2014, 04:27:55 AM »
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I just wanted to agree and say that with my last car tuning after installing wiseco pistons I too noticed more noise in the knock voltage on a eclipse 4g63. It isn't cylinder specific readings but a noticeable change from stock pistons on the 6 bolt. I was also told the same things about noise on cold startup would cause false readings and to not base my timing off a engine that's not fully warmed up. I think someone suggested a few light pulls after operating temperature before logging was good because pistons where up to the correct temps (expansion of metal changes skirt clearance and shape of piston **so I was told**) and phantom noises would be less noticeable. You kind of filter out the regular noise. It was common on most builds to remove balance shafts and use poly mounts and this added to the "noise" also.
The stock eclipse ecu at least that is how I was told to tune it. There optimal voltage pattern tables where not modified but yet we figured out what to ignore. I guess the same approach would maybe work in a way for you in the ME7 world.
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« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 06:30:40 AM by AudiMan85 »
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"Ride like I got a horse stable under my hood" ~ The Game - Too Much
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julex
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« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2014, 12:46:10 PM »
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ME7 is pretty good at filtering out unnecessary noise, there are tons of high power builds out there with custom pistons and having normal timing, no sign of phantom timing pull. You pull is caused by other factors, you induced knocking yourself by under fueling the engine.
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Westfarmracing
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« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2014, 02:56:19 AM »
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ME7 is pretty good at filtering out unnecessary noise, there are tons of high power builds out there with custom pistons and having normal timing, no sign of phantom timing pull. You pull is caused by other factors, you induced knocking yourself by under fueling the engine.
Okay, I know now it was under fueled. The only thing that's strange is these injectors didn't go near what they did on my rs4 engine. ev14 1000cc is laying here now, will try gasoline on those first and see how well it can run on gas first, then I know for sure if there was anything more than fuel limiting. But the fun starts with boose, that's for sure.. |
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Bische
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« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2014, 02:59:16 PM »
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You should be happy that engine didnt blow up lol
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« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2014, 12:45:28 AM »
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Okay, I know now it was under fueled. The only thing that's strange is these injectors didn't go near what they did on my rs4 engine.
ev14 1000cc is laying here now, will try gasoline on those first and see how well it can run on gas first, then I know for sure if there was anything more than fuel limiting.
But the fun starts with boose, that's for sure..
Do you log your actuall WB02 when tuning? What was your actuall AFR? Had too be very lean? |
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Westfarmracing
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« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2014, 05:34:05 AM »
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On this engine, it was okay until i got up to 5000rpm then it started leaning out. On the rs4 engine they worked ok for a little over 500hp. Lesson learned. Just throw some more fueling on it and it will be perf |
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