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Author Topic: Ugrading injectors to 1000cc  (Read 16659 times)
Jim_Coupe
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« on: February 08, 2016, 05:57:59 AM »

Hi,

I have installed new injectors. Im going from BOSCH EV14 630cc to BOSCH EV14 1000cc.
I know that i have to recalculate my KRKTE but then im stumbling in darkness.

My plan was first to recalculate my KRKTE and flash the ECU, Drive couple of miles and watch fueltrims and adjust accordinly.
I have also zeroed my KFKHFM without knowing what i do Smiley

Is there any more "Tips n Trix" and is there a good calculator for calculating KRKTE?

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littco
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 06:57:25 AM »

Hi,

I have installed new injectors. Im going from BOSCH EV14 630cc to BOSCH EV14 1000cc.
I know that i have to recalculate my KRKTE but then im stumbling in darkness.

My plan was first to recalculate my KRKTE and flash the ECU, Drive couple of miles and watch fueltrims and adjust accordinly.
I have also zeroed my KFKHFM without knowing what i do Smiley

Is there any more "Tips n Trix" and is there a good calculator for calculating KRKTE?

Well first off you need the TVUB and KRKTE,

TVUB is the battery voltage offset injection time and this can be found on the internet or speak to the injector supplier.
KRKTE can be worked out and if you have a look on here you will find the formula but a good starting point is 34/injector cc so you will start up at around 0.034. You should be at around 0.058 on the 630cc
If you have wideband then you can as you log the trims and see whether it needs adjusting. The ecu can trim +/- 25% before MIL shows.

Temin/Teminva are the minimum injector in time

Fkkvs is the fuel system correction and there is a utility on here that can help you with that

Other than that I would really suggest you have a read of S4 Wiki and get to grips with it first before pissing in the wind. Las thing you want is to do it all wrong and bore wash the cylinders and screw the engine before you've even got going!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:38:25 AM by nyet » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 11:39:37 AM »

Hi,

I have installed new injectors. Im going from BOSCH EV14 630cc to BOSCH EV14 1000cc.
I know that i have to recalculate my KRKTE but then im stumbling in darkness.

My plan was first to recalculate my KRKTE and flash the ECU, Drive couple of miles and watch fueltrims and adjust accordinly.
I have also zeroed my KFKHFM without knowing what i do Smiley

Is there any more "Tips n Trix" and is there a good calculator for calculating KRKTE?



Did you bother reading the s4wiki page?

It links here
http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,320.msg6774.html#msg6774

which says:
KRKTE = 50.2624*(Liters/Cylinder)/(operating flow rate in cc/min * .684 constant )
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2016, 04:21:33 AM »

Well first off you need the TVUB and KRKTE,

TVUB is the battery voltage offset injection time and this can be found on the internet or speak to the injector supplier.
KRKTE can be worked out and if you have a look on here you will find the formula but a good starting point is 34/injector cc so you will start up at around 0.034. You should be at around 0.058 on the 630cc
If you have wideband then you can as you log the trims and see whether it needs adjusting. The ecu can trim +/- 25% before MIL shows.

Temin/Teminva are the minimum injector in time

Fkkvs is the fuel system correction and there is a utility on here that can help you with that

Other than that I would really suggest you have a read of S4 Wiki and get to grips with it first before pissing in the wind. Las thing you want is to do it all wrong and bore wash the cylinders and screw the engine before you've even got going!



BIG Thanks for that answer it simplifyed some things.. I have read the Wiki and also made my readings in forums but i also wanted to achor it here in a thread so i can get help easy in case of missunderstanding the Wiki.. I think the Wiki is good but sometimes i have problems reading it.. I would like it more visual.

I will start off with the tips u gave me and se where I end up.


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adam-
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2016, 05:09:22 AM »

Visual in what way?  It's a formula.  You cannot make that any more or less visual?
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2016, 07:36:55 AM »

I made this to understand more visual how things are connected. A formula is a subfunction within the function so to speak. That what I mean.. Sorry if I was a bit nonspecific.

Warning this is only a beta made by a "NOOB" !
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nyet
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2016, 10:46:06 AM »

That kinda doesn't make any sense at all Sad
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2016, 03:58:20 AM »

good answer! Thanks.. you have been very informative Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2016, 07:04:40 PM »

good answer! Thanks.. you have been very informative Smiley

No seriously, just about none of the arrows or connections are correct.

I don't know what to tell you.. I'm not even sure what YOU think the connections mean Sad
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nyet
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2016, 07:06:54 PM »

For example - LAMFAW has no bearing on TABGBTS
KRKTE doesn't affect LAMBTS or LAMFAW
STFTs don't affect open loop fueling.

TVUB is additive, KRKTE is multiplicative.

TEMIN has nothing to do with KRKTE

AFR actual affects NOTHING in your flow except for STFT, which, as I said, doesn't affect open loop fueling.

It is as if you completely ignored the FR entirely.
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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2016, 01:45:09 AM »

First the picture was to show what i mean by "KIND OF" show a visual illustration..  and as i said "Warning this is only a beta made by a "NOOB"".

Now that i have made my point clear you are discussing weather I have made the drawing correct or not".

I didnt anywhere near say that the drawing was correct. My claim was that i have problems understanding some text sometimes and therefore i prefer to make a drawing of my understanding so far.  Well one could say I could just paste in the "Functionsrahmen" diectlly but I like so make it look more simple. I will not argue to update this illustration.
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dream3R
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2016, 04:12:39 AM »

FKKVS is still on the code path too, you may need it here.

Best think about one module at a time re diagrams.  Remember the FR's for a 1.8 at well S4/R4 different code everywhere lol.
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How to work out values from an A2L Smiley

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5525.msg52371#msg52371


Starting Rev's http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg51169#msg51169

noobs read this before asking http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9014.0title=


ORGORIGINAL 05 5120 creator for Volvo
ORIGINAL Datalogger (Freeware) Author
ORGINAL finder of the 'extra' torque' limits
I don't have ME7.01 A2L I just use ID
Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 06:53:41 AM »

My FKKVS: Is set at 1.001 all over the map now just to get a picture how it behave on that. I did this due to a rebuild from returless to Fuelrail with return. I can imagine i have to make some adjutments here.

This is a 24V 3.2 VR6
KRTE now: 0.08680 (630cc +E85) I will run 4bar Fuel pressure and E85.
TEMIN now: 0.5867

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Fuel_injectors
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 07:34:48 AM by Jim_Coupe » Logged

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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2016, 07:42:07 AM »

I get this

3.2L
6cyl
1000cc Bosch Ev14

KRKTE = 50.2624*(Liters/Cylinder)/(operating flow rate in cc/min * .684 constant )
KRKTE = 50.2624 * 0.5333 / ( 1000 * .684) = .0391

Could this be plausible?

Also as i understand TEMIN is the minimum time the injector is allowed to be open.. So this mean that if TEMIN is low i limit the openingtime of the injector. And if High i increase time for injector to be open. Is this a limit to not damage the injector to stabilize the idle if very big injectors.

To se if I have to adjust TEMIN my understanding is to log my fueltrims at idle.. IF fueltrim is say 6% off i will have to correct TEMIN untill i get close to "0" at idle.. (But if LTFT is only off scale at idle it could be possible that TVUB is the value to adjust).
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 08:05:32 AM by Jim_Coupe » Logged

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phila_dot
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2016, 02:12:43 PM »

TEMIN is the minimum effective pulsewidth.

Excluding dead time, this is the minimum pulsewidth to keep flow above the knee.

Effective injection time, te_w, will always be >= TEMIN.

Allowing te_w below the knee (TEMIN too low) may cause stalling and too high TEMIN can cause drivability issues and rich conditions.
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