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Author Topic: Ugrading injectors to 1000cc  (Read 16665 times)
nyet
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2016, 02:27:44 PM »

TEMIN is NOT tuned experimentally based on trims, that is what KRKTE and TVUB are for.

If the required KRKTE and TVUB end up with a te_w that bottoms out on TEMIN (meaning that lowering TVUB and KRKTE no longer solve richness at idle), you can ONLY lower TEMIN if the injector allows it. See the injector specs.

If the injector does not allow it, you may have to increase your idle speed or increase idle torque reserve (to have the motor ingest more air during idle).

This may, however, cause richness on VERY light throttle (decel, part throttle just above fuel cutoff) - you may have to bring in fuel cutoff sooner.
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dream3R
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2016, 09:44:12 PM »

TEMIN is NOT tuned experimentally based on trims, that is what KRKTE and TVUB are for.

If the required KRKTE and TVUB end up with a te_w that bottoms out on TEMIN (meaning that lowering TVUB and KRKTE no longer solve richness at idle), you can ONLY lower TEMIN if the injector allows it. See the injector specs.

If the injector does not allow it, you may have to increase your idle speed or increase idle torque reserve (to have the motor ingest more air during idle).

This may, however, cause richness on VERY light throttle (decel, part throttle just above fuel cutoff) - you may have to bring in fuel cutoff sooner.

Concur, you need to keep an eye on te_w (iirc and make it above min
n/pw) at idle no need to upwards temin or anything.

Also you can use FKKVS for fine tuning at the end.

KFMESK etc work but I had to re-work the AC compressor maps too and a few other things.
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How to work out values from an A2L Smiley

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Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2016, 12:43:50 PM »


Good and qlarifying info!
*Allowing te_w below the knee (TEMIN too low) may cause stalling and too high TEMIN can cause drivability issues and rich conditions.
*TEMIN is NOT tuned experimentally based on trims, that is what KRKTE and TVUB are for.
*Also you can use FKKVS for fine tuning at the end.

Tricky
*KFMESK etc work but I had to re-work the AC compressor maps too and a few other things.

Sounds like i have alot to tune this spring  Grin  Te most disturbing thing is that i cant use Me7 logger on my ECU.. sucks.. I have to figure out something.


Thanks for guidance so far !
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nyet
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2016, 04:42:51 PM »

You can also use KFLF for fueling adjustments. Technically FKKVS is for returnless systems (at least according to the FR)... But there is more than one way to skin a cat, and plenty of people use FKKVS in fuel return systems.
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dream3R
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2016, 05:06:37 PM »

If you read the FR I'm sure they mention it's value in return systems,  definitely another way as you say.   Personally I think it's a good map for dialing in injectors/fuelling. 


Either way the Audi  code uses it but alas stock files are all ones that I've seen for the S4 anyway.
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How to work out values from an A2L Smiley

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5525.msg52371#msg52371


Starting Rev's http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg51169#msg51169

noobs read this before asking http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9014.0title=


ORGORIGINAL 05 5120 creator for Volvo
ORIGINAL Datalogger (Freeware) Author
ORGINAL finder of the 'extra' torque' limits
I don't have ME7.01 A2L I just use ID
nyet
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2016, 05:17:35 PM »

Well IMO the reasoning is that your fuel system (if not returnless) should be pretty damn linear outside of very low loads, so any issues you have with fueling are NOT fueling related, they are MAF etc. related.

If you DO have non-linear fueling, your hardware is broken, or you have a returnless system.

By fixing things in FKKVS you are hiding calibration problems in load calculation, etc..

If you fix it in KFLF and MLHFM (assuming your fuel system is working properly), as a side benefit you've got your non-fuel related calibration right.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 05:19:43 PM by nyet » Logged

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Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

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dream3R
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 05:20:29 PM »

Good explanation there wiki?!  I've mostly worked on return less so maybe I am bias Smiley
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How to work out values from an A2L Smiley

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5525.msg52371#msg52371


Starting Rev's http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg51169#msg51169

noobs read this before asking http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9014.0title=


ORGORIGINAL 05 5120 creator for Volvo
ORIGINAL Datalogger (Freeware) Author
ORGINAL finder of the 'extra' torque' limits
I don't have ME7.01 A2L I just use ID
nyet
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2016, 05:27:22 PM »

Good explanation there wiki?!  I've mostly worked on return less so maybe I am bias Smiley

I've not included it in the wiki because I think it is a matter of opinion, and I don't want to mislead people into thinking there is a single way to do things!

If FKKVS works, it works.
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Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
dream3R
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2016, 05:33:07 PM »

I've not included it in the wiki because I think it is a matter of opinion, and I don't want to mislead people into thinking there is a single way to do things!

If FKKVS works, it works.

Good point!  Different ways like you said.
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How to work out values from an A2L Smiley

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5525.msg52371#msg52371


Starting Rev's http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg51169#msg51169

noobs read this before asking http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9014.0title=


ORGORIGINAL 05 5120 creator for Volvo
ORIGINAL Datalogger (Freeware) Author
ORGINAL finder of the 'extra' torque' limits
I don't have ME7.01 A2L I just use ID
dream3R
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2016, 05:38:04 PM »

Not disputing a word but though I'd add this since it's comes fom an FR I have:

Quote

The function calculates the effective injection time tevfa from the relative fuel mass rk w,rk2 w and the factor frkte.
At an ideal fuel system there will be Lambda combustion chamber 1.0 with ti = tefva + tvu. A real fuel system has to be corrected
by the map FKKVS for pulsations in returnless fuel systems, nonlinearitis of injection valves ... .
The injection time ti b1, ti b2 is calculated by addition of the battery voltage correction and the corrected effective injection
time te w, te2 w.

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How to work out values from an A2L Smiley

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5525.msg52371#msg52371


Starting Rev's http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=5397.msg51169#msg51169

noobs read this before asking http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9014.0title=


ORGORIGINAL 05 5120 creator for Volvo
ORIGINAL Datalogger (Freeware) Author
ORGINAL finder of the 'extra' torque' limits
I don't have ME7.01 A2L I just use ID
Jim_Coupe
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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2016, 07:09:05 AM »

Well IMO the reasoning is that your fuel system (if not returnless) should be pretty damn linear outside of very low loads, so any issues you have with fueling are NOT fueling related, they are MAF etc. related.

If you DO have non-linear fueling, your hardware is broken, or you have a returnless system.

By fixing things in FKKVS you are hiding calibration problems in load calculation, etc..

If you fix it in KFLF and MLHFM (assuming your fuel system is working properly), as a side benefit you've got your non-fuel related calibration right.


Thanks for declaring that.. I have been lying sleepless at night thinking exact about that! My FKKVS table is now 1.001 because im almost certain that my fuelsystem is linear now with return line and a Bosch 4bar FPR.

Now im a bit uncertain when KFLF is the table to adjust and when MLHFM is the table to corrent... What is it that points me to use KFLF or when to use MLHFM? My understanding is that KFLF is a correction table under part load and MLHFM is due to modified air intak that is so modified from stock that it need a touch up.  Like me going from a NA engine to an turbo.. Now the air must pass trough various pipes and an intecooler and so on.. What is a good method of dialing in the MLHFM and the go over to KFLF?

When I think after now.. I should have calibraed mt MLHFM when the engine was almost stock. Then i would have seen the deviation clearly.. I should have modified the car one step at the time derriving from stock calibrated engine.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 07:16:18 AM by Jim_Coupe » Logged

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