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Author Topic: Skoda Octavia vRS 1.8T | AUQ | Stage 2 remap - help needed  (Read 37992 times)
seeeeergiu
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« Reply #75 on: September 18, 2019, 11:17:10 AM »

Hard to say, tuning out occilations in PIDs is more art that science.

yes, b_lddy completely turns off Q2 when lde is close to zero.

Looking at your logs it is tough to see what the cause of the oscillation is, I'm hoping just reducing Q0S is enough.

maybe start with that -50% and log and compare with the last one.
Based on my current understanding i cannot see the influence of Q0S in the D formula.
I`ll modify it anyway based on your advice.
Currently it is 2, i`ll lower it to 1 and check out the differences.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 11:23:52 AM by seeeeergiu » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2019, 01:10:22 PM »

Based on my current understanding i cannot see the influence of Q0S in the D formula.
I`ll modify it anyway based on your advice.
Currently it is 2, i`ll lower it to 1 and check out the differences.

Q0S takes over the P term and D is disabled entirely when B_lddy=0

If lowering Q0S worse we MAY want to increase Q2 and Q0S
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seeeeergiu
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« Reply #77 on: September 20, 2019, 02:55:19 PM »

Q0S takes over the P term and D is disabled entirely when B_lddy=0

If lowering Q0S worse we MAY want to increase Q2 and Q0S
Hello,

I have put back KFLDIMX stock values back in place and tried 3 more things:
a) reduced LDRQ0S by 50% (from 2 to 1) ->doesnt seem right
b) increased KFLDRQ2 by 10-30% arround affected area  -> seems to be the right choice, with other small tweaks it may solve the boost oscilation problem
c) reduced KFLDRQ2 by 10-30% arround affected area ->doesnt seem right

You can find attached 4th gear + 6th gear logs and image of values modified in archives below.

Any further tips given the results above? Since the increased KFLDRQ2 reduced the oscillations a bit ... maybe i should work on that path by increasing KFLDIMX a bit (cuz of the undershoot) and increase KFLDRQ2 a bit more in necessary areas?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 02:59:50 PM by seeeeergiu » Logged
nyet
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« Reply #78 on: September 20, 2019, 03:05:10 PM »

Yes and yes, I feel like you are on the right track! btw you may want to increase Q0S with Q2 they are somewhat linked due to b_lddy
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seeeeergiu
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« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2019, 03:18:39 PM »

Yes and yes, I feel like you are on the right track! btw you may want to increase Q0S with Q2 they are somewhat linked due to b_lddy
Awesome, thanks a lot for your guidance!

Now that i'm on the right path, can you please hint aswell on what need to be done to rise the boost request at 3500rpm?
I would like to have a flat request 3000-4500rpm before doing the final tweaks on the PID.
I've checked the maps related to cam changeover(according to s4wiki) and i dont think thats the cause Sad.
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« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2019, 04:50:14 PM »

Awesome, thanks a lot for your guidance!

Now that i'm on the right path, can you please hint aswell on what need to be done to rise the boost request at 3500rpm?
I would like to have a flat request 3000-4500rpm before doing the final tweaks on the PID.
I've checked the maps related to cam changeover(according to s4wiki) and i dont think thats the cause Sad.

It isn't. That only affects you if you use LDRXN. That said, you can use LDRXN to taper from 3000 on up such that boost req limt from LDRXN is lower than HBN, it should be pretty flat.

I don't use HBN much as a limiter so I dont know how to flatten the result out... would have to dig through the FR to figure it out.
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seeeeergiu
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« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2019, 04:01:10 PM »

It isn't. That only affects you if you use LDRXN. That said, you can use LDRXN to taper from 3000 on up such that boost req limt from LDRXN is lower than HBN, it should be pretty flat.

I don't use HBN much as a limiter so I dont know how to flatten the result out... would have to dig through the FR to figure it out.
I saw in my logs that rlsol (EngineLoadRequested) from KFPED/KFMIRL etc. is capped by rlmax_w (EngineLoadCorrected) which comes from LDRXN via rlmx_w (EngineLoadSpecified).
ldrlts (KFLDHBN) is overall higher than LDRXN, so i am not sure why you are saying that it is responsable for limiting.
Also, i`ve intentionally put a high spike in LDRXN and KFLDHBN at 3500rpm just to see if it raises the request... but no success.
Am i missing something?
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« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2019, 07:38:40 PM »

ldrlts (KFLDHBN) is overall higher than LDRXN, so i am not sure why you are saying that it is responsable for limiting.
Apologies, I must have misread one of your earlier posts and mistakenly assumed ldrltrs was lower than rlmax. My mistake

Quote
Also, i`ve intentionally put a high spike in LDRXN and KFLDHBN at 3500rpm just to see if it raises the request... but no success.
Am i missing something?

yea, IRL likely isn't high enough for it to have an effect. You can see that from rlsol

The rest of the humps I'm not sure of, i'd have to walk through the FR again to go through each map and which var to track it down from.
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seeeeergiu
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« Reply #83 on: September 24, 2019, 03:08:00 PM »

Apologies, I must have misread one of your earlier posts and mistakenly assumed ldrltrs was lower than rlmax. My mistake

yea, IRL likely isn't high enough for it to have an effect. You can see that from rlsol

The rest of the humps I'm not sure of, i'd have to walk through the FR again to go through each map and which var to track it down from.
Okay, i`m retarded. After spending 3 nights pulling schematics from FR, making a very long one in paint and checking each parameter.... i come to a conclusion that KFPBRKNW or KFURL might be the issue.
I remembered that i`ve read on S4wiki about the cam changeover effect on req. boost so i go back there and ... information is clearly stated. Roll Eyes
BTW: There might be a typo on "KFPBRKNWS". I think it should be changed to "KFPBRKNW"

Conclusion: Boost request at 3500rpm problem shall be solved by altering KFURL (3500rpm values will be same/close as the 3000rpm ones).

Regarding boost oscillation issue:
-Increased KFLDRQ2 and KFLDIMX (check attached picture) and results are better in 4th gear but kinda the same in 6th gear.
HJ0002_20190924_212048.csv -4th gear logs
HJ0002_20190924_212525.csv -6th gear logs

Any further suggestions?
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« Reply #84 on: September 24, 2019, 04:02:26 PM »

BTW: There might be a typo on "KFPBRKNWS". I think it should be changed to "KFPBRKNW"
Indeed. Fixed, thanks for the heads up.

A few crazy ideas:

1) Increase Q0S
2) Decrease UMDYLDR
3) Decrease UMDYLDR and increase/decrease Q0
4) Decrease UMDYLDR and increase/decrease Q2

Your IMX looks fine, i'd leave it alone, its tracking the center of the dc you want.
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soul87
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« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2019, 01:50:25 AM »

Copy PID maps from S3 BAM engine, have the same problem with this engine - AUQ.... instead of many many hours of tuning Q0,1,2 and Q0ST Q1ST .... or tune it to the way similar to the S3 Bam ecu.

AUQ pids just does not work well with higher boosts req. . idk why . pid controller behave like it is too aggressive on static mode.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 01:51:58 AM by soul87 » Logged
fknbrkn
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mk4 1.8T AUM


« Reply #86 on: September 25, 2019, 02:21:20 AM »

0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00
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100.00   100.00   59.03   45.84   38.96   27.17   12.00   6.40   5.57   3.56   2.14   0.00   0.00   0.36   0.00   0.00
100.00   100.00   99.19   82.20   63.20   53.55   34.82   20.66   18.75   18.47   18.38   19.73   20.83   21.47   23.61   26.65
100.00   100.00   100.00   96.25   86.99   76.77   57.15   45.96   34.82   33.16   32.60   35.27   44.32   52.94   60.29   64.12
100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   85.96   66.95   55.16   48.82   52.73   64.20   74.28   82.35   85.58   87.23   86.96
100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   89.17   71.93   63.81   61.82   66.39   74.08   84.08   92.11   96.05   97.69   97.38
100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   100.00   80.89   75.01   69.65   72.61   77.94   87.65   94.02   98.81   100.00   99.79


0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00   0.00
95.00   95.00   19.11   27.07   35.37   39.51   42.56   45.13   44.13   43.34   42.13   42.01   41.65   41.56   41.40   41.60
95.00   95.00   25.49   38.16   47.90   52.17   55.18   56.83   55.81   55.55   54.61   54.21   53.48   53.09   52.68   51.56
95.00   95.00   31.41   45.24   57.02   59.50   61.55   64.38   63.69   63.09   62.45   62.18   61.46   61.27   60.39   58.58
95.00   95.00   36.80   51.41   61.84   65.03   67.26   69.36   69.70   69.49   69.47   68.80   68.58   68.20   67.69   65.40
95.00   95.00   41.55   56.81   66.97   70.23   72.44   73.82   73.61   73.19   72.98   73.22   72.90   72.39   71.82   71.26
95.00   95.00   45.35   63.17   72.66   74.29   75.71   77.11   76.91   77.01   77.03   76.94   76.48   76.45   75.93   75.17
95.00   95.00   49.16   70.00   77.01   78.35   78.98   79.75   80.20   80.19   80.44   80.67   81.14   80.87   80.04   79.09
95.00   95.00   68.64   81.08   84.67   84.83   83.66   83.69   84.19   85.66   86.44   87.52   88.07   87.94   87.55   86.53
95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00   95.00


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fknbrkn
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« Reply #87 on: September 25, 2019, 02:22:31 AM »

attention to imx axis
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soul87
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« Reply #88 on: September 25, 2019, 03:34:31 AM »

no no no , leave imx and ldr alone,

this should be solved mainly by tuning Q0,1,2 and Q0ST, Q1ST

Increasing Q2, and lowering Q0ST and Q1ST should solve the issue imho ...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 03:41:08 AM by soul87 » Logged
fknbrkn
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« Reply #89 on: September 25, 2019, 03:59:38 AM »

There is q0 q1 in pic
Less aggressive during spool up
And I don't think it's a good idea to imx 1100hpa value higher than stock k03
And typically you requesting much more than pr 1100 on a k04
So what's the point leaving stock imx axis?
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