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Author Topic: audi a8 4.2 bfm ME7.1.1 custom mapping  (Read 45358 times)
nyet
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« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2016, 10:30:30 AM »

if your going to come into my thread and start telling me what I'm saying is b.s. and I should watch what I say then do it somewhere else

Sorry, that isn't how the world works. If you post stuff that is wrong, you'll get responses, if only to make sure others don't get misinformation.
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cookie44
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« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2016, 01:10:39 PM »

I understand that, I have no problem with others correct me and say sorry mate but that won't work, maybe you could do this in stead. Not "what you've said is utter b.s".
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2016, 09:38:54 PM »

Instead is one word. J/k
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Mikhail
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« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2016, 10:58:14 PM »

Thanks Mikhail, I'll try to look for one. How do I know if it's defined?

C
Just open the map to it's own popup and look the values that does they make sense. If part of the map axis values or the map table values look strange, then try change the map address (klick mouse right button above the map popup to open a menu, then select the bottom selection to that menu). The map axis values may be at the beginning of the map (at the bin hex code) or they may be elsewhere.

Forgot to say, that to copy the definition, you have to select the map at the defined bin by mouse left button.

At this point when you have copied some definition to your project, the definition is in your project, just save it and look where winols saves it.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 11:18:37 PM by Mikhail » Logged
bitmap
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2016, 08:02:33 AM »

There is zero reason for the manufacturer to leave even a little MPG on the table, AND you have a V8. It will never get decent MPG.
Actually, there is - emissions.
I don't know about petrol engines since I'm yet to mess with one with FE in mind but as for diesels and especially turbocharged diesels, there is quite a lot to be gained if they are calibrated for EURO3 or higher.
I myself achieved 14% better FE on EURO4 2.0 TDI just by messing with the calibration in part load area.
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cookie44
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« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2016, 03:10:27 PM »

This is great news Smiley I'm yet to do more work on the code I have as I haven't done anything for a few days (work) but I'll get my code sorted so it's in a readable condition!
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cookie44
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« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2016, 03:11:11 PM »

Just open the map to it's own popup and look the values that does they make sense. If part of the map axis values or the map table values look strange, then try change the map address (klick mouse right button above the map popup to open a menu, then select the bottom selection to that menu). The map axis values may be at the beginning of the map (at the bin hex code) or they may be elsewhere.

Forgot to say, that to copy the definition, you have to select the map at the defined bin by mouse left button.

At this point when you have copied some definition to your project, the definition is in your project, just save it and look where winols saves it.

Thanks for that mate I'll get on it
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seishuku
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« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2016, 10:10:57 AM »

This is great news Smiley I'm yet to do more work on the code I have as I haven't done anything for a few days (work) but I'll get my code sorted so it's in a readable condition!
Yup, they don't get very aggressive with fuel cut on overrun, have to keep the cats hot.
Cutting back light load to near 15:1, and cut fuel completely on overrun will yield a significant MPG increase.

Obviously emissions will increase as well, mainly NOx if I recall.
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cookie44
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2016, 11:51:10 AM »

Yup, they don't get very aggressive with fuel cut on overrun, have to keep the cats hot.
Cutting back light load to near 15:1, and cut fuel completely on overrun will yield a significant MPG increase.

Obviously emissions will increase as well, mainly NOx if I recall.

With a petrol then thatshouldnt be much of a problem with it not having to heat up cats? With it being not a diesel

C
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seishuku
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2016, 04:24:05 PM »

With a petrol then thatshouldnt be much of a problem with it not having to heat up cats? With it being not a diesel

C
Depends on the converter and it's optimum operating temperature, or no problem at all if they've been removed! Grin

Or it could be they're injecting extra fuel to keep NOx production lower, so the cats don't have to work as much.
Minimal NOx production usually happens around 14.3:1, either way, the crappy MPG ratings are usually emissions related, to keep catalytic converters happy and NOx low (also CO and HC to an extent).
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cookie44
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« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2016, 05:18:45 AM »

Depends on the converter and it's optimum operating temperature, or no problem at all if they've been removed Grin

You think I could remove my torque converter?? That would be great! Although it means swapping the big itself for a msnual one and fitting clutch pedals and alsorts of rubbish. I would like to have a manual conversion. That would save lots of fuel. But it does have a lock up clutch but only at at a pace. Maybe I'll get the tcm remapped to have it engage sooner and have ecu done to lower consumption a touch
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 07:13:36 AM by cookie44 » Logged
prj
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« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2016, 01:44:33 PM »

Actually, there is - emissions.
I don't know about petrol engines since I'm yet to mess with one with FE in mind but as for diesels and especially turbocharged diesels, there is quite a lot to be gained if they are calibrated for EURO3 or higher.
I myself achieved 14% better FE on EURO4 2.0 TDI just by messing with the calibration in part load area.
This is not a diesel with retarded soi for NoX. On Gasoline the only thing you can do is very slightly lean out the target AFR, but this has to be done as an ASM hack, which the OP will never get done. The fuel efficiency difference is max 1%, if that. I will also challenge you any time on that 14% claim. You are not going to make 14% more fuel efficiency by closing the EGR and bumping SOI in the "loft". Not even close. On 1-2 spots on the map maybe, but your car spends <1% of time in those spots.

Yup, they don't get very aggressive with fuel cut on overrun, have to keep the cats hot.

Cutting back light load to near 15:1, and cut fuel completely on overrun will yield a significant MPG increase.

Obviously emissions will increase as well, mainly NOx if I recall.
I wonder where these myths come from?
Have you tuned an Audi A8 D3? You can not have, because none of what you say make sense.

Dumping fuel on overrun:
1. Increases consumption
2. Increases emissions
3. Will melt the cat if the cat is not specially designed for it.

Guess what - this car does not do this. Fuel is cut completely and resumed at RPM X. Very easy to see if you ever drove any of these cars with a wideband. But let me guess, you never have.

The only time some cars are slightly liberal with cutting fuel is to make exhaust noise on some newer "performance oriented" cars. The Renault Megane RS is a good example, then again it runs a metal cat for this very reason.
Leaning from 14.7 to 15.0 is 2% leaner. You will also make less power. The net gain in fuel efficiency is <1%. Never mind the fact that you have to do ASM hacks to get the ECU to request a leaner ratio than 1.0 and stay in closed loop. Not to mention that you will fail a sniffer emission test if you come in with a car that holds 1.02 lambda in closed loop - but this depends whether they do this test in your country.

Not worth it. Not even close. Calling <1% fuel differences "significant" - please...
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 01:48:57 PM by prj » Logged

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seishuku
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« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2016, 02:19:12 PM »

I said cut fuel on overrun, not dump... Also leaning out light loads, not in general.
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nyet
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« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2016, 02:19:57 PM »

Leaning from 14.7 to 15.0 is 2% leaner. You will also make less power.
x1000000

This is what I don't get.

If you want to save gas, don't hit the gas pedal as hard. Or restrict KFPED to 50% max. It really is that simple.
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ME7.1 tuning guide
ECUx Plot
ME7Sum checksum
Trim heatmap tool

Please do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own.

Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
prj
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« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2016, 02:23:39 PM »

I said cut fuel on overrun, not dump... Also leaning out light loads, not in general.
It is exactly the same as you said. The process you described does not exist on this car. No cars actually increase fueling on overrun, the ones that pop and bang simply do not cut all the injectors all the time and use a very late ignition angle.
On this particular engine the cylinders are cut at the highest possible speed that does not cause a jerk and are phased in the same way.
They are cut completely. The injectors are fully closed.
Again, it is not possible to make it run above lambda 1 in closed loop without modifying the code in the ECU, especially if you want to do it only on some rpm's. Even then, as I said, the difference would be <1%.

I have tuned this very engine. I have put it in a different chassis. I have strapped a supercharger to it, and I have tuned the said supercharger to perfection.
I have something you do not - I have actual experience with this very engine, and this is why I am replying to this topic in the first place. Your theorycraft is going nowhere, because you could not be more wrong. You have no experience with this engine and you have very little experience calibrating VAG gasoline control units, because what you said is simply the exact opposite of what happens in reality.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 02:28:23 PM by prj » Logged

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