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golfputtputt
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2016, 06:42:03 AM »
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took a look back at the log, my concern was more inexperienced confusion. I'm not used to interpreting logs.
It does seem that my fuel protocol is doing what it's supposed to do when ignition is retarded. Any thoughts on why I'm getting knock at such low levels of boost? My ignition angle is stock. Is this something that can occur from the factory at these points? I've taken logs before at higher boost with no ignition retard found.
What could be causing the fueling to go rich and stray from requested AFR past 5550 rpm?
Also I'm curious why WGDC is at 95% at beginning of spool up? Shouldn't it be 95% closer to max boost, maybe a bit before?
And why my throttle plate isn't open all the way during 100% pedal position...I am a noob and I have a lot of questions.
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 07:25:13 AM by golfputtputt »
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fknbrkn
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mk4 1.8T AUM
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2016, 08:19:21 AM »
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why WGDC is at 95% at beginning of spool up?
because actual boost < requested (KFLDIMX ya? ) throttle plate is ok PID probably ok tweak your LDRXN(zk) / KFLDHBN if you doesnt know how to do it then read wiki, take a 180 or 225 file and see how they re doing it you ask for help with the fueling without logs..  and post your LDRXN. just for lulz |
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golfputtputt
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2016, 11:03:25 AM »
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just so I'm understanding this correctly: WGDC means n75 duty cycle? Opening of the solenoid means the actuator diaphragm valve is subjected to conditions taking place inside the pressure pipe downstream of the turbocharger. If WGDC % is high (95%) the actuator is more subject to these conditions than if it was low (10%) (because the n75 flutters on and off rapidly) but the wastegate cannot open until the turbocharger builds pressure enough to counteract the spring in the actuator. So it doesn't matter if the WGDC is 0 or 95 because the spring is holding the wastegate closed and allowing boost to build. (assuming turbine housing (hot side) pressure doesn't force it open)
K03s spring pressure is 6psi correct?
So, why place WGDC at 95% as soon as boost begins to build? Why not keep it at 0 until shortly before max boost and ramp it up to say 60% (settling % after max boost?) Whats the benefit of being at 95%?
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 11:05:54 AM by golfputtputt »
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nyet
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2016, 11:04:56 AM »
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It does seem that my fuel protocol is doing what it's supposed to do when ignition is retarded. Any thoughts on why I'm getting knock at such low levels of boost? My ignition angle is stock. Is this something that can occur from the factory at these points? I've taken logs before at higher boost with no ignition retard found.
The only obvious answer is a bad batch of gas, or unusually high IATs What could be causing the fueling to go rich and stray from requested AFR past 5550 rpm?
I don't see that it is doing that Also I'm curious why WGDC is at 95% at beginning of spool up? Shouldn't it be 95% closer to max boost, maybe a bit before?
No, you want as much spring pressure holding the WG closed as possible during spool. And why my throttle plate isn't open all the way during 100% pedal position...I am a noob and I have a lot of questions.
There is a map that does this to keep intake noise down at lower rpms. I don't recall the name off hand, I'd have to dig through the FR and/or one of my files. It honestly doesn't seem to affect things much unless you are running a truly massive set of turbos, and even then, you've got enough lag that by the time the turbo is spooled, the throttle plate should be wide open. |
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nyet
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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2016, 11:06:16 AM »
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So, why place WGDC at 95% as soon as boost begins to build? Why not keep it at 0 until shortly before max boost and ramp it up to say 60% (settling % after max boost?) Whats the benefit of being at 95%?
You'd have to add yet more gain scheduling to the already complicated PID to accomplish this, for absolutely zero benefit. |
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golfputtputt
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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2016, 11:15:26 AM »
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do I have this backwards? Does 95% WGDC mean: the actuator sees LESS of the conditions inside the boost pressure pipe instead of MORE? when WGDC is 0% is the actuator always open to the pressure pipe? ....if the n75 fails open, that would mean more DC signal means it is closed more......correct? There is a map that does this to keep intake noise down at lower rpms. I don't recall the name off hand, I'd have to dig through the FR and/or one of my files.
It honestly doesn't seem to affect things much unless you are running a truly massive set of turbos, and even then, you've got enough lag that by the time the turbo is spooled, the throttle plate should be wide open. thank you. The only obvious answer is a bad batch of gas, or unusually high IATs It's prob bad gas, IATs seem fine. Thanks. Extracurricular thoughts: has anyone experimented with a double sided sealed actuator paired with a 4 port solenoid to open the wastegate under vacuum during non boost conditions for gas mileage and exhaust gas flow efficiency reasons? I think the ford ecotec setups do this with their BW turbos. Or fully electronic wastegate like the mk7's? screen cap below: is actual not straying from requested at 5500? |
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 11:52:24 AM by golfputtputt »
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TijnCU
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flying brick
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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2016, 12:17:50 PM »
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0% n75 duty is limp mode. It means all pressure is directed to the wastegate, causing it to open at the spring pressure (3-5psi)
95% duty is maximum possible boost. All pressure is directed back into the intake pipe and wastegate is bypassed.
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nyet
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« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2016, 12:30:31 PM »
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Re: AFR deviation: Yes, sorry, I didn't see that. Not sure why actual is doing that and trims aren't doing their thing. I need to look at your logs again. Hopefully something will stand out.
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nyet
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2016, 12:36:13 PM »
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For some reason, lambda control is cutting out. Not sure why, but I have seen it happen on wideband cars up top.
But when it is active, it keeps pulling quite a bit of fuel, so your KRKTE (or MAF) isn't calibrated correctly quite right yet, and/or you have some sort of intake leak still.... so when it turns off, it stops pulling fuel and you go rich.
The solution (like with narrow band cars) is to make sure open loop fueling is right.
That said, someday I should dig around the FR and find out what might cause lambda control to turn off during WOT.
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golfputtputt
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2016, 01:15:05 PM »
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to confirm, lambda control=stft? lambda control avg=ltft?
It's been a while since touching KRKTE (.08936) for the one and only time, should I start by lowering it at the .0000 or .000 decimal place?
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 01:48:25 PM by golfputtputt »
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SB_GLI
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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2016, 01:36:29 PM »
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no, both are the short term (current fuel trim). Long term fuel trim values are the "adaption" variables.
I wouldn't concern yourself with the end of the run where it goes rich for now. You are running an odd "tune" with lower output than stock, yet more fuel, and who knows what else you might have mucked up in the file. It's not really a real-world tune, don't try to tune around hypothetical scenarios.
In fact, again, I am confused about what this thread is really about and what you are trying to solve, or if it's just another thread to help you gain answers to questions that are answered multiple times throughout the forum.
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 01:43:36 PM by SB_GLI »
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golfputtputt
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« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2016, 01:51:05 PM »
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Learning mainly. Can't really do much unless I know how. If I don't know what to look for, I can't find it myself and if I can't find it myself, I'm gonna ask questions. so here I am, asking questions. After this thread is dead, feel free to delete it if ya'll are concerned with muddying up waters or server space or whatever.
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vwaudiguy
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« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2016, 03:32:23 PM »
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In fact, again, I am confused about what this thread is really about and what you are trying to solve, or if it's just another thread to help you gain answers to questions that are answered multiple times throughout the forum.
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"If you have a chinese turbo, that you are worried is going to blow up when you floor it, then LOL."
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nyet
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« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2016, 07:00:44 PM »
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Learning mainly. Can't really do much unless I know how. If I don't know what to look for, I can't find it myself and if I can't find it myself, I'm gonna ask questions. so here I am, asking questions. After this thread is dead, feel free to delete it if ya'll are concerned with muddying up waters or server space or whatever.
No your questions are good ones. STFT, LTFT and lambda control are 3 separate things. narrow band has no lambda control, but it does have STFT and LTFT. |
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golfputtputt
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« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2016, 11:28:58 AM »
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Ok so to confirm: lambda control (fr_w)=stft lambda control avg (frm_w)=also stft Adaptation partial (fra_w)=ltft Ive been searching and I can't find anything saying whether or not you should disable LTFTs while tuning KRKTE. TVUB and FKKVS pertain to fuel trims at idle correct? Tuning KRKTE: you're looking for fra_w, fr_w and frm_w to be as close to 0 as possible...? Do I have this correct? http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?action=;topic=2819.0read this but I'm unsure how to interpret the data he posted along with how to replicate the graphs/charts he made. Does anyone know how to make axis labels visible on maps in tunerpro? |
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« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 11:42:25 AM by golfputtputt »
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