NefMoto > Technical > Tuning > 2.0TFSI HPFP problem after update from cam follower to roller
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Author Topic: 2.0TFSI HPFP problem after update from cam follower to roller  (Read 19478 times)
Misio
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2022, 02:19:42 AM »
Quote from: Sven77 on February 09, 2019, 12:08:52 PM
ive had this issue before also and it was the position of the lobe on the intake cam for the HPFP. if its even slightly off the ecu cannot control the duty cycle and you will have crazy pressure even with stock FPR. 

Hello all,
I have issue with HPFP on my EA113 with DAZA Turbo.
Setup:
RS3 Injectors - new from dealer
RS3 LPFP with RS3 module - new from dealer
DAZA Turbo - used one
S3 intake cam - new from dealer
HPFP - new from dealer
VIS Internals HPFP - new one Stage 1
175b FPRV Dynodrome (initialy 165b unknown and rs4 140b)
Forged Engine

Car was tuned by very famous polish tuner. The day i picked up from tuner the car it was starting very rough, a lot of black smoke on wot (like TDI) and randomly stuttering/jerking at 5-6k RPM. We did logs that showed Pressure on HPFP drops from requested 140b to 125b on wot and then car Stutters -> he told me go home buy new HPFP ->no changes.

By this time i changed FPRV to 140b RS4 and friend adjusted the soft to request 130b -> Puff car is working perfectly like a charm but requested was 130b while during wot i was getting even 135b. Because of Rs4 valve we had to decrease boost due to lack of fuel.
I bought brand new Dynodrome FPRV 175b and all the problems are back Smiley We changed only valve, soft was untouched and i have issues with stalling and jerking 5-6k rpm.
It happens even without boost just open TB a little bit on 1st gear to get to 6k rpm and Puuf it stalls. We spent 1 year and still cant solve this... Tuner told me that i lack fuel but i should be able to put 600hp on this fuel system. Dynodrome told me that we cant make a good soft and valve is good...

« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 02:22:50 AM by Misio » Logged
BlackT
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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2022, 04:06:16 AM »
Logs?
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Misio
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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2022, 04:53:58 AM »
Quote from: BlackT on May 11, 2022, 04:06:16 AM
Logs?

RS4 valve Fuel Logs
http://vaglogi.pl/log-002_230_231_ulOPC.html

165B Valve Fuel Logs
http://vaglogi.pl/log-002_231_230_H0uCBi7.html

Im waiting for 175b Dynodrome Valve logs but i bet they same as 165b. As you can see 130b is like a wall and when 130b is achived it starts to fall and then car sttuters and Rail goes up
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Misio
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2022, 06:11:24 AM »
Im trying to get my car back so i can make logs on my side and download software... im getting sick since the car with RS4 valve was running ok with 130b specified however u can see that i get even 140b pressure. When we specified 135b then the car would again stutter/jerk at the same rpm. On the logs we saw that HPFP was pumping 140b and then valve open and stutter.
I believe tuners dont know how to properly tune HPFP (VIS internals, S3 intake cam). I can paypal some1 for help. I have my initial (165b valve) soft on the computer so if any1 wanna look at this please let me know.



I even deleted roller kit and swapped to oem but no changes. By the way my HPFP (new one and old one) is making strage noises like banging with VIS internals only (tried to swap to autotech but no changes).
With oem tappet it is only noticable but with roller it was banging like hell.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 06:25:03 AM by Misio » Logged
xXxCryxXx
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2022, 01:25:36 PM »
Quote from: Misio on May 16, 2022, 06:11:24 AM
Im trying to get my car back so i can make logs on my side and download software... im getting sick since the car with RS4 valve was running ok with 130b specified however u can see that i get even 140b pressure. When we specified 135b then the car would again stutter/jerk at the same rpm. On the logs we saw that HPFP was pumping 140b and then valve open and stutter.
I believe tuners dont know how to properly tune HPFP (VIS internals, S3 intake cam). I can paypal some1 for help. I have my initial (165b valve) soft on the computer so if any1 wanna look at this please let me know.



I even deleted roller kit and swapped to oem but no changes. By the way my HPFP (new one and old one) is making strage noises like banging with VIS internals only (tried to swap to autotech but no changes).
With oem tappet it is only noticable but with roller it was banging like hell.
A friend of me had the same Problem Same Car same specs … but it was a horrible tuner rpm was limited to 6500 rpm also same Problem like you discribe… did you have a error code in your ecu becuse of fuel? I dont rember the error code … but its not a Hardware fail its a Software fail of your Tuner … really that issue is one to one the same like a friend had he changed the tuner and problem was solved …


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Misio
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2022, 12:50:03 AM »
Quote from: xXxCryxXx on May 16, 2022, 01:25:36 PM
A friend of me had the same Problem Same Car same specs … but it was a horrible tuner rpm was limited to 6500 rpm also same Problem like you discribe… did you have a error code in your ecu becuse of fuel? I dont rember the error code … but its not a Hardware fail its a Software fail of your Tuner … really that issue is one to one the same like a friend had he changed the tuner and problem was solved …


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Diferrent tuner, new FPRV and same issues. We cannot make it work on those valves. RS4 works.
I received proposition to buy new Tuned HPFP which can make up to 500 HP with RS4 valve.
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prj
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2022, 04:47:30 PM »
I mean if it stalls on idle revving the engine, then you have some shit with the tune.
Maybe stopping to use VCDS and using a real logger can help you, so you can actually see what is going on.
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Misio
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2022, 02:05:25 AM »
Quote from: prj on May 17, 2022, 04:47:30 PM
I mean if it stalls on idle revving the engine, then you have some shit with the tune.
Maybe stopping to use VCDS and using a real logger can help you, so you can actually see what is going on.

It does not stall on idle.
Its super strange that even no boost no load just 1st gear and go to 6k rpm and it will start to stutter/jerk... I bet that HPFP overshots pressure badly because you can see on logs that i get pressure like 170b.... and thats the reason ecu closes tb i think. Car is standing for 1 month at tuners place and he did not make it work... New tuned HPFP is on my way.
I have a soft with 165b specified for try and we could not pass 4k rpm... full throttle 165b on the rail and car cannot pass 4k rpm just stops.
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prj
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2022, 10:29:59 AM »
Quote from: Misio on May 18, 2022, 02:05:25 AM
I bet
i think.

Stop this shit and log the car properly... thread is waste of time until you do.
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Misio
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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2022, 11:34:58 AM »
Quote from: prj on May 18, 2022, 10:29:59 AM
Stop this shit and log the car properly... thread is waste of time until you do.
i have posted logs
http://vaglogi.pl/log-002_015_016_tW9h28.html
http://vaglogi.pl/log-002_231_230_H0uCBi7.html
http://vaglogi.pl/log-002_115_031_FUqiZ.html
http://vaglogi.pl/log-002_020_031_56B6GZ5.html
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Mk5gt
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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2022, 01:35:21 PM »
I agree with sven77 's previous post.
Your problem lays on the intake cam lobe for the HPFP.
It rotates slightly and as a result you experience fuel pressure overshoot.

Take the camshaft out and check the lobe for correct alignment.
I always weld the lobe after repositioning.
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curamrdan
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2022, 03:37:49 PM »
Mk5gt: can you elaborate more detailed on this please? Its it for roller conversion or OEM? I never seen loose lobe on camshaft, but maybe i did not look on some particular detail.

About topic, what about missfires? From logs i see problem only on one then on another cylinder, it can be old tfsi injectors as tends to fail over 140-150bar.  On RS4 prv it works because regulate maximum pressure itself and not over 140. Pressure spikes with stroger PRV will be mostly due missfiring(fuel is not extracted from rail by injector/s as expected by ecu so it fights again HPFP regulation that is not fast enought for this situation)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 03:49:33 PM by curamrdan » Logged
Misio
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2022, 11:44:34 PM »
Guys, dont look at missfires i had bad head springs but now i have bar-tek springs so no more missfires. Injectors are new oem rs3 from audi dealer as all other parts are new, nothing is used one.
My intakae cam is new from audi dealer from s3, we did not touch the lobe.
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xXxCryxXx
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« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2022, 12:46:05 AM »
Quote from: Misio on May 18, 2022, 11:44:34 PM
Guys, dont look at missfires i had bad head springs but now i have bar-tek springs so no more missfires. Injectors are new oem rs3 from audi dealer as all other parts are new, nothing is used one.
My intakae cam is new from audi dealer from s3, we did not touch the lobe.
Why did you send old Logs? Prj say send logs and you have Hardware Changes so new log would be better …
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Misio
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« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2022, 01:11:28 AM »
Quote from: xXxCryxXx on May 19, 2022, 12:46:05 AM
Why did you send old Logs? Prj say send logs and you have Hardware Changes so new log would be better …

I dont have car at this moment and tuner is not sending me any logs (asked several times).
I sent the newest one i have. This issue is with me for one year and only on RS4 Valve the car was running ok.
Guy who build my car said that Dynodrome Valve i have is broken and it should work without any software changes.
130b specified rail on 175b valve and car is stalling/jerking (can send video), swap to rs4 valve and works perfect. 
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