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Author Topic: 1.8T engine is running too rich - Long Term Fuel Trim -19% please help :(  (Read 86610 times)
Malinovsky
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I noticed you said the check valve(PCV) between the intake mani and PCV system has been deleted. So is the port just closed up or do the hoses still reside but without that check valve? What about the opening on top of the oil cooler. Is closed up also? If so, what did you use to do that with?
Ok I will try to fully explain how I changed OEM pcv system to my catch tank system.
from this part near oil filter:
goes a new hose directly to mycatch tank open
this is the place on my car:

this is my catch tank with 3 opens:

second tank open on the side goes directly to valve cover
and the open on the top of my catch tank goes to to "hockey puck" valve that goes to TIP.
this is the and of my pcv system. It is a fully closed system.
Oh and open under inkake manifold from valve that gone to oem pcv valve is closed now.
Hope I cleared the situation Smiley

Also this N's system is out:


now dv is connected via hose directly to intake manifold.
I also have cold side dv relo kit

thanks I will try it today.
Should I first reset ecu to get 0% in LTFT before I start this test ?
Or should I do it with my LTFT on -18% ?
or maybe it doesn't matter at all ?

yea I dunno either until he chimes in. The pic doesn't really show under the intake that well.
Which hose? The one with the orange stripe? If so, that comes from his DV I believe. I think he has a cold side DV relocation kit and hasn't plugged the opening where he was running the DV or BOV before in the pic.
Ok I explained my changes in pcv and N's systems, so now my dv relo kit.
Before mod OEM dv place was like this:

after a mod this is a new cold side open for dv:


2 orange hoses are dv hoses,
one to new open on cold side, and second (the one you have asked about goes to second open on TIP - the same open that OEM)

black small hose goes directly to intake manifold (OEM open under manifold)
full dv sestem:


oh, and dv is a new forge 007 for mk1 TT
when was the last time you reset the adaption values?
Were you running a BOV or DV before the pic was taken?
I was using OEM dv when my setup was fully OEM,
when I started mods I changed OEM AUdi DV to forge DV.
I never used BOV - in my opinion BOV is a bad idea for 1.8T engine Wink

I'm reseting ecu and adaptation valies from time to time.
Usually when I want to test some new idea to deal with the problem or want to do some new logs
So I can say I reset it when I change or swap some parts that can be a cause of the problem.

of ane ONE MORE VERY IMPORTANT INFO for everybody:
I have this problem since I bought the car. Ihe car was full OEM that time.
I started changing parts to new and mods slowly always checking it the problem is getting better.
But nothing good happend since that time.
So my point is. I'm 100% sure that
THE PROBLEM IS NOT CONNECTED WITH ANY OF MY MODS.
But of course this is only what I think and checked so we can argue about it Smiley
Feel free to any new ideas.
I will check o2 sensor using test in link you gave me and hockey puck using test you described.
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userpike
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no n249system is bad for 1.8ts also. There are reasons they were implemented. #1 you get faster reaction time when compared to using just the manifold vacuum.  
#2 the ECU can use the DV as a safety feature if needed only if the n249 system is still connected.

If I were you I would reinstall the components for this system. There are plenty of discussions about this on the forum.


I was thinking if you were using a BOV the trims would be screwy because the metered air being vented to atmosphere instead of diverted back behind the MAF. So scratch that idea..

So you are saying that you have reset the adaption values and consistently get the -19 in the 2nd value of block 32?
What does the first value show?
What are you using to reset the adaption values?

« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 08:44:34 AM by ddillenger » Logged
Carsinc
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He said he bought this car with this problem, Now I'm thinking maybe the tune, and or lemmewinks.
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Malinovsky
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So you are saying that you have reset the adaption values and consistently get the -19 in the 2nd value of block 32?
What does the first value show?
What are you using to reset the adaption values?
Yes,
after reseting ecu I need only a few minutes of driveing and values goes back to -19%
In the first value number is very very near to zero %, like - or + 0,5%.
I reset ecu using vag-com software.

in fact I can even show you the full process on logs

a/ this is a first log. The engine is cold. I just started a car, reset ecu to get 0% trims and adapt throttle body.
The car is on, and running on idle. You can see that LTFT is about 0% but STFT goes to about -10% and even more.
this is the log (2 samples per sec):
http://vaglog.rtnet.pl/soulx666_132888.html

b/ and now after a few minutes I started a normal drive. Not a log run, just a normal drive.
You can see how LTFT goes down to about -11% and during this drive STFT shows even -25%
If I would log a few more minutes LTFT would go down to -19% and then stays with this value until I reset ecu again.
this is run log (also 2 samples per sec):
http://vaglog.rtnet.pl/soulx666_132889.html

I also added both logs in csv file format as attachments here to this post,
idle log name finish with word "start", and normal drive log name finish with "run"


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Malinovsky
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He said he bought this car with this problem, Now I'm thinking maybe the tune, and or lemmewinks.
I don't think that car was tunned before I bought it.
I did logs after I bought car and values were stock.
I also was on dyno after I bought it:

+ I added my ecu file in this topic as attachment - so you can check in I'm right
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Carsinc
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That dyno graph looks like the car has a surging issue also?  What boost does it make and does it surge?
Lemmiwinks data is stored in the EEPROM (same area with the immo) from my understanding I'm not sure
if it shows up in the read .bin file or not. I do know that TT guys love Lemmiwinks for some reason, and that
I've seen people use it for all the wrong reasons.
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userpike
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I don't think that car was tunned before I bought it.
I did logs after I bought car and values were stock.
I also was on dyno after I bought it:

+ I added my ecu file in this topic as attachment - so you can check in I'm right


maybe I am blind but I don't see your ECU file attached anywhere.
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Carsinc
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First page maybe the tenth post. It would do me no good to download it I have no XDF no would have anything to compare it to Sad

I do have a 180 tt ecu but I'm sure its tuned so it will not be of any help right now.
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userpike
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First page maybe the tenth post. It would do me no good to download it I have no XDF no would have anything to compare it to Sad

I do have a 180 tt ecu but I'm sure its tuned so it will not be of any help right now.


found it..dunno how I missed it.. Huh

I will check it out I think I have a definition file for it maybe.
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Malinovsky
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That dyno graph looks like the car has a surging issue also?  What boost does it make and does it surge?
haha you are good Smiley Yes there was a small issue with surge when I bought a car.
It was caused by old OEM DV. The dyno was made before I changed it to forge, so you can see surge on graph (but to be honest I've no idea how you saw it Cheesy ).
I just put this grapf to show that car was fully stock - 179,5 hp on graph, and I have 180hp version.
Right now, after mods I mentioned in topic I have a few more hp, but this is not important here Smiley
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coreyj03
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If the fuel trims are positive on short term and  negative on long term i have seen many bad mafs cause this issue. even with out any faults other than rich.
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Malinovsky
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If the fuel trims are positive on short term and  negative on long term i have seen many bad mafs cause this issue. even with out any faults other than rich.
trims are negative on both short and long term
someone gave idea about test drove with unplugged maf.
For how long can I drive like this to not harm my vehicle ?  Roll Eyes
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ddillenger
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You can drive without the MAF indefinitely. The ecu uses a calculated value sans the MAF signal. If it were me, I'd flash a known stock file (yours doesn't look stock, if the car is rated @180hp that's a crank figure, you're showing 179 at the wheels?) and keep the MAF plugged in. Verify it's the correct MAF (notjust the housing, remove the sensor and verify THAT is correct). I don't think your trims are due to a leak.
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userpike
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You can drive without the MAF indefinitely. The ecu uses a calculated value sans the MAF signal. If it were me, I'd flash a known stock file (yours doesn't look stock, if the car is rated @180hp that's a crank figure, you're showing 179 at the wheels?) and keep the MAF plugged in. Verify it's the correct MAF (notjust the housing, remove the sensor and verify THAT is correct). I don't think your trims are due to a leak.


I was wondering if the file requires larger injectors and someone put stock back in before they sold the car to him.
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Carsinc
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haha you are good Smiley Yes there was a small issue with surge when I bought a car.
It was caused by old OEM DV. The dyno was made before I changed it to forge, so you can see surge on graph (but to be honest I've no idea how you saw it Cheesy ).
I just put this grapf to show that car was fully stock - 179,5 hp on graph, and I have 180hp version.
Right now, after mods I mentioned in topic I have a few more hp, but this is not important here Smiley
I'd bet thats a tuned file, that surging is classic for poor tune.  I say leave everything the way it is and flash a known stock
file.
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