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prj
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« Reply #120 on: September 10, 2015, 12:05:29 AM »
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Yes normally MAP with those but I would be surprised if Bosch would strive for anything less than measuring the first cubic mm of air that enters the filter to when it exists the exhaust in as many places as possible really and taking into account all the variables, so the more you add you could say, the more control you have. Plenty of ecu's where you can define the volume of air in the intercooler etc which all helps, especially if you are upgrading these parts and add density changes, take it further and measure all pressure drops and so on.
Torque structuring maf for my personal preference if I had to pick one of the two though.
The BMW S63/N63 engine for example has two MAF's and then two pre-tb pressure sensors, and after those two manifold pressure sensors - 4 pressure sensors in total. Simos 8.5 on Audi has no MAF, but a pressure sensor in the manifold. Not looked at NA applications... Every Siemens ECU contains MAF_SP and MAP_SP - usually one of them measured, other calculated, but probably there are more with both. So only looking at damos is not enough  Looking back in history 2.2T AAN has both a MAP (in the manifold) and a MAF sensor. Ecu is M2.3.2. |
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« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 12:36:56 AM by prj »
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Gonzo
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« Reply #121 on: November 19, 2015, 01:55:48 AM »
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There is ME7 VAG applications that are MAF-less from factory for those who don't know. They have the MAP sensor inside the manifold and they are N/A. They are also mostly sold in countries where emissions aren't as stringent (no SAI, etc).
Now what I don't know is: what the secondary/auxiliary load signal (aka the load signal also referred to as limp mode here) on these is.
Also, not to stroke anyone's genitalia but prj is right. If you do a MAFless patch on 1.8T/2.7T, you are just on a "limp mode" designed to get you home if your MAF fails. It does work well enough, though.
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wannabee900
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« Reply #122 on: November 19, 2015, 02:07:18 AM »
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There is ME7 VAG applications that are MAF-less from factory for those who don't know. They have the MAP sensor inside the manifold and they are N/A. They are also mostly sold in countries where emissions aren't as stringent (no SAI, etc).
Give us some .ori or ecu partnr if you have, please |
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fredrik_a
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« Reply #123 on: November 19, 2015, 11:37:09 PM »
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Now what I don't know is: what the secondary/auxiliary load signal (aka the load signal also referred to as limp mode here) on these is.
On N/A-engines, could it be as simple as throttle plate angle and engine speed? |
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fknbrkn
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mk4 1.8T AUM
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« Reply #124 on: November 20, 2015, 12:59:13 AM »
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its euro 1.4 75hp AXP/APE/BCA engines. they`re using map sensor in manifold to calc load
036906032P for example
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Apsik
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« Reply #125 on: November 26, 2015, 03:46:53 AM »
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Did that 2 years ago for the 1st time and I love it ever since. It was Rotrex Schatged MK4 R32 Now I have 4 cars running HPX MAF and ZERO issues An HPX MAF and a love for perfectly linear fueling.
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prj
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« Reply #126 on: November 26, 2015, 08:15:55 AM »
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On N/A-engines, could it be as simple as throttle plate angle and engine speed?
It's the same on N/A and on Boost. Exactly how you said - throttle plate angle and engine speed (alpha-n). On N/A the pre-throttle pressure is constant - atmospheric pressure. On Turbo it uses the pre-throttle sensor to determine the pressure. The problem with both approaches is, that you do not know the pressure in the manifold. So you do not know the pressure ratio at the throttle plate, so it is impossible to know with any precision how much air is going in. On WOT you are basically relying on a single map (WDKUGDN) to tell you how much air the engine can ingest. Hence why it is nothing but a limp mode. |
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Imho
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« Reply #127 on: June 15, 2021, 02:14:10 AM »
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hello, after some years topic is back anyone know how to send load to ESP module while MAF is removed with this solution ? 1b9e2 - KFMLDMN threshold for B_minflr diagnosis HFM/HLM change entire map to 0 10d69 - CWBGMSZS change from 2 to 0 1819c - CDEHFM maf code word change from 1 to 0 18802 - CWDHFM maf code word change from 0 to 1 and finally, the one map you can change alone to simply remove the illusive p0102 fault and sensor error limp but will not have cruise and esp without the other 4 changes... 10716 - CLALM maf voltage signal error class change from 3 to 1 I am willing to pay some is someone have solution for mbox |
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nyet
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« Reply #128 on: June 15, 2021, 09:53:36 AM »
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Yes, re-install your MAF, or find a tuner that can do speed density for you.
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ME7.1 tuning guideECUx PlotME7Sum checksumTrim heatmap toolPlease do not ask me for tunes. I'm here to help people make their own. Do not PM me technical questions! Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your ex
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Imho
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« Reply #129 on: June 15, 2021, 02:21:57 PM »
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always so helpful thanks Nyet !!
issue solved
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drbluetongue
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« Reply #130 on: June 30, 2022, 10:32:43 PM »
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I do it like this: http://prj-tuning.com/files/pics/20150417_192017.jpgBut if I wanted to run it in limp mode on secondary air path, I would disable the mass flow too low fault class, and then ECU automatically does everything needed. Single value change vs your one million changes. And for ESP there is another single byte patch to fix it. Hey mate, did you happen to have another copy of this image? It doesn't load anymore. |
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prometey1982
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« Reply #131 on: July 03, 2022, 09:50:03 PM »
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Why just don't calculate air mass? I'll plan to install second MAP sensor after throttle body. And plug sensor instead of MAF. Then mass of air flow can be calculate by next formula:
GBC = FE * Vcyl * P * 293 / (273 + Tair) * K
FE - correction factor from throttle/revs correction map
Vcyl - cylinder volume
P - absolute pressure after throttle
Tair - intake air temperature
K - calculation factor for unit translation
So mshfm = GBC * nmot
Formula can be more complicated. For example additional correction from pressure/revs can be added. And error diagnostics still there. If second MAP sensor will die then MAF error will be raised.
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prj
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« Reply #132 on: July 04, 2022, 01:07:03 AM »
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Why just don't calculate air mass? I'll plan to install second MAP sensor after throttle body. And plug sensor instead of MAF. Then mass of air flow can be calculate by next formula:
GBC = FE * Vcyl * P * 293 / (273 + Tair) * K
FE - correction factor from throttle/revs correction map
Vcyl - cylinder volume
P - absolute pressure after throttle
Tair - intake air temperature
K - calculation factor for unit translation
So mshfm = GBC * nmot
Formula can be more complicated. For example additional correction from pressure/revs can be added. And error diagnostics still there. If second MAP sensor will die then MAF error will be raised. None of that is needed. Set ps_w from sensor and ECU will do everything else. Look at FR. |
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prometey1982
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« Reply #133 on: July 04, 2022, 08:39:31 AM »
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None of that is needed.
Set ps_w from sensor and ECU will do everything else. Look at FR.
Ok, I'll try. |
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prometey1982
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« Reply #134 on: July 05, 2022, 04:54:17 AM »
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None of that is needed.
Set ps_w from sensor and ECU will do everything else. Look at FR.
What about dpsfg_w? Should it be calculated from ps_w or what? |
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