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woj
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« Reply #285 on: September 28, 2018, 02:54:48 PM »
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Correct me if I am wrong, I know about LPG tuning as much as I know about Diesel tuning = I know shit, but wouldn't LPG need ignition timing adjustments too?
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pc1010
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« Reply #286 on: September 28, 2018, 03:22:43 PM »
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In general it doesn't, you can advance ignition to take advantage of the added octane rating but other than that you don't have to touch the stock ECU.
The problem is when the petrol ECU is acting up the same problems are with LPG. As much as I heard of T-Jet 120 is better suited for that fuel because ECU is tuned better than 150 (like mine), I mean the stronger version has problem with injector looping which prevents from LPG controller from properly reading the injection time. Maybe that is the problem. Or that freakin' DLBTS is kicking in and enriching the mixture strongly so it doesn't burn. But what is in the X axis? Ignition efficiency so is it difference between KFZWOP? It doesn't make too much sense to me but I'm not expert at this...
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woj
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« Reply #287 on: September 28, 2018, 03:45:37 PM »
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By default there is no blocking of injector looping, it can be enabled with one of the codewords (will look it up when less wasted), when it is the ECU will limit load to prevent injector looping. Your issue is not as much as poorer / different 150 tune, but the fact that (a) injectors, which are the essentially the same for 120 and 150, are almost maxed out on 150 already on gasoline, (b) LPG (as far as I know it knowing shit about it) need substantially larger injection times?
For DLBTS, yes, IIRC, it's the efficiency of spark calculated from distance of the current ignition from ZWOP. The basic ZW on high load is already quite far from ZWOP (no surprise here - knock limit) and adding ignition retards to this causes the efficiency to drastically drop at some point resulting in huge fuel additions. On ethanol I could bring the basic ZW much closer to ZWOP and despite (phantom :/) ignition retards the fuel addition is still minimal.
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pc1010
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« Reply #288 on: September 29, 2018, 01:14:16 AM »
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I have an installation for more powerful engines so it has injection times shorter than the noPB to achieve desired AFR.
I'm interested how is DETAZWBS calculated and more in which codeword could enable the looping protection.
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woj
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« Reply #289 on: September 29, 2018, 03:57:23 AM »
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CWREGDS bit #0 Code word continuous injection regime. You can find in the reference Alfa-Mito definition and match it to your bin. But note that this will only work for injection times the ECU knows of, if they are modified with an external device this won't do anything useful.
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pc1010
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« Reply #290 on: September 29, 2018, 04:37:50 AM »
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Thank you. The most important for LPG system is to have correct outputs from ECU, if it is giving continuous signal for 100% DC it won't see correct times and everything goes wrong. I'll check it next week when I'll have more time to play  I'm curious how exactly is input for DLBTS calculated. Is it just a ratio of zwout to KFZW values? It would be perfect to have ME7Logger compatible with our Fiat version but I see there are no plans to add it...  |
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woj
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« Reply #291 on: September 29, 2018, 11:10:41 AM »
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Right, so then I should be a bit more precise in explaining this keyword, it won't guarantee non-looping. It merely limits load down to the level where it thinks the injectors would loop, but it does not check if they do! The calculation is rough (IIRC it does not take FKKVS into account), so you may still get continuous signal.
It seems that your setup has some several mods, it's really difficult to say what can be wrong.
From the top of my head I do not remember precisely what input DLBTS has, but it is then corrected (multiplicative) by KFFDLBTS. By filling in the latter one with zeros you kill the ignition retard enrichment. Take any random FR (I think) and look at the description of LAMBTS, I think it should be more or less the same for all ME-s, and it essentially works with the current spark efficiency.
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nyet
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« Reply #292 on: September 29, 2018, 03:46:52 PM »
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From the top of my head I do not remember precisely what input DLBTS has
basically, efficiency delta between opt and actual timing, keeping in mind that opt efficiency is not 100% either  |
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370rx
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« Reply #293 on: October 04, 2018, 11:19:57 PM »
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All welcome! Soon I will customize my fiat, the question for professionals, how do you control retard ? If some software allows you to keep a log with the amount of retard, under what conditions (rpm, load, boost) (sorry, if not clear, using a translator)
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woj
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« Reply #294 on: October 21, 2018, 12:24:02 PM »
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So some rambling about cold E85 calibrations. Cranking/starting so far mostly sorted out, at least down to 5*C, still not cold enough here to have regular ~0*C or lower experiments. But in the process I also had to work on ESUK issues, clearly the wetting is considerable for E85 when cold. I essentially had to double KFBAKL from 10*C downwards, I still get leanish spikes on acceleration while cold driving. In the process of trying to get rid of rich spikes on deceleration I also went quite high with KFVAKL and only today I realized after careful log analysis that I had hit the map limit long time ago and increasing does not do anything anymore, rk_w is at 0 on decelerations. Nevertheless, the spikes are still on the rich side, apart from some exceptional situations, when it goes totally lean momentarily (AFR gauge shows 21, and no, this is not overrun fuel cut). One way or the other, it seems that the walls are flooded with fuel, and there is not much that can be done in ESUK to tame it to reasonable levels. This is only an issue for the first 60-90 seconds of running, nevertheless I am wondering (a) if this sounds normal, (b) how do the factory systems deal with that, (c) if my AFR cold readings are worth anything considering my inlet and cylinders are swimming in Ethanol. The engine drives fine during this time (it did not on stock gasoline KFBAK/VAK maps), so I should perhaps give it a rest, but the physics of it just bothers me. At freezing temps this will become an issue, though probably one I will never see, because I typically have to de-ice the car when it warms up.
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370rx
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« Reply #295 on: October 23, 2018, 10:39:58 PM »
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Hi, can you share address cards KFRLMXHO and settings of the X and Y axes? Thank you, I want to try to play this card OK, so to get this going, let me throw some names for now. Some of these are obvious, yet they would limit boost, some of them are not to be found in the Alfa t-jet map pack (while some of them, in one form or the other (for example 2d vs 1d, are in the bin). When I find some more time I will post the addresses of these in another abarth bin, for now you can start playing to see if you can find them / match from the Alfa map pack. Also, some of these names are my own invention due to lack of documentation and not being that verse in Bosch vocabulary.
Pressure scalars:
PSRMX
PSREMX
PVDMX
PVDEMX
PVDXABS
From the BGHATLSTS module, someone here before claimed these are responsible for limiting requested boost, I cannot see how in the code and I am 80% convinced they don't (they do influence boost control though), still I would hold on to that claim as that person did tune this ECU, and I did not:
ETATUR
KFETAVD
KFOFLVDSNG
KFVPNVRPVV - not sure what this one does exactly, but it is compression related and converts one compression factor to another in connection with the three previous
Load limitation:
KFRLMXHO - Load limitation based on air density
KFRLXTSRN - Load limitation based on IAT
KFRLMXLPH - Load limitation for some sort of limp home mode (should not be needed on a healthy setup)
VVTVATU - Turbo compression ratio to limit discharge temperature (this is not the same as KFLDBHN, BTW, the two rows are "moving" & "standstill" in KFLDBHN).
Torque:
KLDMMX - max delta torque, does not limit the absolute torque, but the change rate, might temporarily cap the max torque I guess.
You have also KFPZU in your definition, this and other maps like this probably need changing if they are lower than your MDMAXNM* limiters.
Then there are the throttle opening related maps, someone said somewhere that these probably do not need touching (but if they are, the two should be inverses of each other), nevertheless, they define the 95% load throttle threshold in other setups defined in the WDKUGDN map, and these two are substantially different between the 120 hp and 150+ versions of this ECU.
KFMSNWDKVP
KFWDKMSNVP
Then there are the _UM maps, but these should be obvious, the _UC maps I believe can be left alone.
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woj
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« Reply #296 on: October 24, 2018, 11:54:06 AM »
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Which bin? Not all of them have have this map. Another thing, the reoccurring question I get through pm-s and in the different threads is about diagnostic programs, logging parameter support, and a decent logger. As far as supporting Fiat group specific KWP protocol there is only MES on PC, and AlfaOBD on Android. Unless I am uninformed, but I have recently seen some photos from a RevLimit dealer on FB, and they use MES too (poor bastards ). I never got AlfaOBD to work, because my BT ELM interface is a heavily castrated Chinese clone that does not support the needed CAN modes (or whatever else, it just does not work). The logs I posted here come from my own hand crafted Android based logger/dash that requires (a) custom hardware, (b) ECU program mods to facilitate fast logging. I also have a butt-ugly Java PC application that can read and log ME7.9.10 CAN ECUs decently fast through ELM327 and does not require ECU mods. I have been pondering over the idea of making a useable and nice looking public domain version of this, but could not find time so far. As I have it now it is not releasable because it's Linux only due to a native library for serial comms. And I am not touching the RXTX library with a 10 feet pole to make it cross system compatible. And it misses the K-line support for the older generation ME7.9.10-s (I do have a working code base for K-line / VAG-KKL cables, but it is not integrated). |
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370rx
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« Reply #297 on: October 24, 2018, 10:41:43 PM »
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I'm sorry, I'm using Google translate. Alfaobd is also available for PC. You can buy the full version of elm327 BT (I can give a link to aliexpress), and even better ELM 327 usb. Which bin? Not all of them have have this map. Another thing, the reoccurring question I get through pm-s and in the different threads is about diagnostic programs, logging parameter support, and a decent logger. As far as supporting Fiat group specific KWP protocol there is only MES on PC, and AlfaOBD on Android. Unless I am uninformed, but I have recently seen some photos from a RevLimit dealer on FB, and they use MES too (poor bastards ). I never got AlfaOBD to work, because my BT ELM interface is a heavily castrated Chinese clone that does not support the needed CAN modes (or whatever else, it just does not work). The logs I posted here come from my own hand crafted Android based logger/dash that requires (a) custom hardware, (b) ECU program mods to facilitate fast logging. I also have a butt-ugly Java PC application that can read and log ME7.9.10 CAN ECUs decently fast through ELM327 and does not require ECU mods. I have been pondering over the idea of making a useable and nice looking public domain version of this, but could not find time so far. As I have it now it is not releasable because it's Linux only due to a native library for serial comms. And I am not touching the RXTX library with a 10 feet pole to make it cross system compatible. And it misses the K-line support for the older generation ME7.9.10-s (I do have a working code base for K-line / VAG-KKL cables, but it is not integrated). |
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370rx
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« Reply #298 on: October 24, 2018, 10:43:22 PM »
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I'm sorry, I'm using Google translate. What I have not found is how to log Knock? Which bin? Not all of them have have this map. Another thing, the reoccurring question I get through pm-s and in the different threads is about diagnostic programs, logging parameter support, and a decent logger. As far as supporting Fiat group specific KWP protocol there is only MES on PC, and AlfaOBD on Android. Unless I am uninformed, but I have recently seen some photos from a RevLimit dealer on FB, and they use MES too (poor bastards ). I never got AlfaOBD to work, because my BT ELM interface is a heavily castrated Chinese clone that does not support the needed CAN modes (or whatever else, it just does not work). The logs I posted here come from my own hand crafted Android based logger/dash that requires (a) custom hardware, (b) ECU program mods to facilitate fast logging. I also have a butt-ugly Java PC application that can read and log ME7.9.10 CAN ECUs decently fast through ELM327 and does not require ECU mods. I have been pondering over the idea of making a useable and nice looking public domain version of this, but could not find time so far. As I have it now it is not releasable because it's Linux only due to a native library for serial comms. And I am not touching the RXTX library with a 10 feet pole to make it cross system compatible. And it misses the K-line support for the older generation ME7.9.10-s (I do have a working code base for K-line / VAG-KKL cables, but it is not integrated). |
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370rx
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« Reply #299 on: October 24, 2018, 10:51:07 PM »
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For normal operation on Can bus ELM327 BT need to remove the resistor 121 between CAN H and CAN L Which bin? Not all of them have have this map. Another thing, the reoccurring question I get through pm-s and in the different threads is about diagnostic programs, logging parameter support, and a decent logger. As far as supporting Fiat group specific KWP protocol there is only MES on PC, and AlfaOBD on Android. Unless I am uninformed, but I have recently seen some photos from a RevLimit dealer on FB, and they use MES too (poor bastards ). I never got AlfaOBD to work, because my BT ELM interface is a heavily castrated Chinese clone that does not support the needed CAN modes (or whatever else, it just does not work). The logs I posted here come from my own hand crafted Android based logger/dash that requires (a) custom hardware, (b) ECU program mods to facilitate fast logging. I also have a butt-ugly Java PC application that can read and log ME7.9.10 CAN ECUs decently fast through ELM327 and does not require ECU mods. I have been pondering over the idea of making a useable and nice looking public domain version of this, but could not find time so far. As I have it now it is not releasable because it's Linux only due to a native library for serial comms. And I am not touching the RXTX library with a 10 feet pole to make it cross system compatible. And it misses the K-line support for the older generation ME7.9.10-s (I do have a working code base for K-line / VAG-KKL cables, but it is not integrated). |
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