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Author Topic: ME7.1 / Standalone parallel ECU  (Read 6804 times)
86turbodsl
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« on: March 31, 2023, 01:10:05 PM »

I'm working on a car with an ECU that has no support for boost.  3.0 AVK w/widebands.

What i want to do is run the stock ME7.1 in parallel with a standalone.
I am not new to tuning, i am new to ME7.1 tuning.  I've read enough threads here
to know that that ECU will not like boost and be a general PITA. 

What i want to do is use the stock ecu to interface with the cluster, keep an eye on temp gauges and what not, and run the ABS/DBW etc.

What is the minimum input i can get away with to keep the stock ecu from being pissed off?
I will run separate sensors if i need to, but at some point i know i will need to turn some functionality off in the ME7.1 to keep the DBW working correctly at a minimum.  I did search but didn't see any threads that went into this type of setup.
Yeah i know there's $$$ ecus out there that will do this sort of thing as a full standalone and talk to the other car bits, but i prefer a  more DIY approach where i can learn more.
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prj
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2023, 02:57:25 PM »

No threads because it's a waste of time, forget it.

Either find a full standalone or tune the stock ECU.
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letsgoo
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2023, 06:54:46 AM »

I'm working on a car with an ECU that has no support for boost.  3.0 AVK w/widebands.

What i want to do is run the stock ME7.1 in parallel with a standalone.
I am not new to tuning, i am new to ME7.1 tuning.  I've read enough threads here
to know that that ECU will not like boost and be a general PITA. 

What i want to do is use the stock ecu to interface with the cluster, keep an eye on temp gauges and what not, and run the ABS/DBW etc.

What is the minimum input i can get away with to keep the stock ecu from being pissed off?
I will run separate sensors if i need to, but at some point i know i will need to turn some functionality off in the ME7.1 to keep the DBW working correctly at a minimum.  I did search but didn't see any threads that went into this type of setup.
Yeah i know there's $$$ ecus out there that will do this sort of thing as a full standalone and talk to the other car bits, but i prefer a  more DIY approach where i can learn more.

Are you gonna run a manual transmission?

I think MaxxEcu can run stock cluster, depends on car ofc. RACE variant support DBW also.
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Blazius
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2023, 09:53:38 AM »

It is possible to implement what you want on the stock ecu among other things if you are willing to pay for it that is.
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dikidera
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2023, 10:19:34 AM »

Curious. What would be the upper limit of boost you could run on a ECU that has no concept of boost? 0.1 psi, 1 psi? 2?

I would imagine 1 psi should be possible because atmospheric pressure can rise up to 1 psi, from 14.7 stock to 15.7.
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Blazius
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2023, 10:37:37 AM »

You can implement PRJ's boost control, also convert to SD if no MAF is possible,  and also you can delete the upper load limit as that is the main limiter on non turbo ecus by default which means you cant even run wastegate pressure boost, unless you kill ME7's control or absolutely mess up the load by underscaling it so you got cushion.

Not many people will do this or can do it.
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prj
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2023, 01:58:10 PM »

Curious. What would be the upper limit of boost you could run on a ECU that has no concept of boost? 0.1 psi, 1 psi? 2?
As much as you want.
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_nameless
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2023, 03:47:46 PM »

Curious. What would be the upper limit of boost you could run on a ECU that has no concept of boost? 0.1 psi, 1 psi? 2?

I would imagine 1 psi should be possible because atmospheric pressure can rise up to 1 psi, from 14.7 stock to 15.7.
Pressure is a measurement of restriction nothing more. Its about load, the ecu has a hard load cap that it can not (without being patched) go over.  You can run boost on a stock na ecu by patching these load limits or by underscaling the maf and keeping load limits below the capped value.
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dikidera
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« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2023, 03:00:44 AM »

So the actual limit is how much air the ECU can measure, such as the maximum value of say load or airflow in the tables, and maybe even the MAF itself? And then maybe the limitation of the injectors and fuel pump pressure etc.
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prj
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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2023, 03:05:46 AM »

So the actual limit is how much air the ECU can measure, such as the maximum value of say load or airflow in the tables, and maybe even the MAF itself? And then maybe the limitation of the injectors and fuel pump pressure etc.
There are no software limitations in ME7 beyond a 100% hard load limit on some ECU's, that can be patched and 2560 absolute pressure, which can be rescaled to 5120.
Everything else is hardware. Yes obviously you're gonna need to do hardware mods, but I don't see how this is relevant whatsoever.
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_nameless
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2023, 05:42:44 AM »

So the actual limit is how much air the ECU can measure, such as the maximum value of say load or airflow in the tables, and maybe even the MAF itself? And then maybe the limitation of the injectors and fuel pump pressure etc.
Take a step back and do some reading. What I told you already is more then what you would get from most as this is borderline spoon feeding. Also, just wanted to add that your ECU is also me7.1.1 not me7.1
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dikidera
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2023, 06:10:31 AM »

Take a step back and do some reading. What I told you already is more then what you would get from most as this is borderline spoon feeding. Also, just wanted to add that your ECU is also me7.1.1 not me7.1
No, my ECU is Denso. I was asking generally speaking about boost and the limits of an ECU which has no such concept. And yes, thank you for this information. I realize I may have threadjacked by asking these questions, but they are probably relevant for OP as well.

It's just that English is not my first language, so it takes a little longer to piece together the information and actually understand it.
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86turbodsl
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« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2023, 09:03:29 AM »

Are you gonna run a manual transmission?

I think MaxxEcu can run stock cluster, depends on car ofc. RACE variant support DBW also.

It'll be a manual yes.
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86turbodsl
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« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2023, 09:10:55 AM »

There are no software limitations in ME7 beyond a 100% hard load limit on some ECU's, that can be patched and 2560 absolute pressure, which can be rescaled to 5120.
Everything else is hardware. Yes obviously you're gonna need to do hardware mods, but I don't see how this is relevant whatsoever.

I'm the OP, my initial thoughts were to rescale all maps with load by 50% and move to a 5120 MAP, but at this point, it's starting to look like a full standalone makes more sense, if i can find something to control the cluster.  And if not, probably hack together a CAN controller with an arduino or something similar for glue.  I really prefer not to move to a digital dash unless i can't get anything working.
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prj
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« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2023, 10:45:01 AM »

I'm the OP, my initial thoughts were to rescale all maps with load by 50%
Not needed.
Quote
and move to a 5120 MAP
Not needed unless you want to run more than 1.5 bar boost.

But if you don't have a good grasp of ME7, then trying to turbo a NA ECU is not it for the first learning experience.
So yes, find a standalone ECU that has the CAN matrix support.

Without proper CAN support, besides the cluster, also say goodbye to ABS/ESP and automatic gearbox (if it's not manual).
ESP communication is two way, you are not going to hack together a controller for that when ECU has no concept of torque model.
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