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prj
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« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2013, 11:11:06 AM »
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I don't have any kind of drivability issues whatsoever except for this odd RPM readouts... That's because the ECU is so good... Try looking at the signal with a scope and checking what you see. My guess is that will be either really noisy or the peak to peak will be insufficient (sender too far or offset from teeth). The reason for your RPM jumping up and down is because some teeth edges are not detected by the ECU. |
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julex
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« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2013, 11:22:31 AM »
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That's because the ECU is so good...
Try looking at the signal with a scope and checking what you see. My guess is that will be either really noisy or the peak to peak will be insufficient (sender too far or offset from teeth).
The reason for your RPM jumping up and down is because some teeth edges are not detected by the ECU.
So here goes the question then which might solve my problem. The car is an allroad. CPS sensor came with this between itself and bell housing hole from factory, or at least that's what I found there:  Is this a standard part for S4 transmission (I have TDI now)? I know that supposedly all 01e housings are identical but you never now. |
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ddillenger
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« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2013, 11:44:28 AM »
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Mine has one.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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julex
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« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2013, 12:55:32 PM »
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Mine has one.
Cool. I ordered chinese special nano oscilloscope and we will see. In the meantime, I will inspect tone ring placement via sensor hole and try lowering it in by removal of spacer to see what the effect might be. |
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ddillenger
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« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2013, 12:56:40 PM »
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If you remove that spacer the ckp will hit the tone ring before it bottoms out.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
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julex
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« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2013, 01:10:39 PM »
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If you remove that spacer the ckp will hit the tone ring before it bottoms out.
I'll verify that. Since I am having possible problems with properly detecting teeth (well, the are really gaps), one possible culprit is sensor being too far from ring. If I remove the spacer and still don't hit the ring... right there. My clutch is older model clutchmasters Fx700 so who knows what kind of teething problems I might have on my hands here. I am lucky in that I still have my old tranny in my garage as well as couple of engine blocks and clutches so can look up things and see what the hell is going on. |
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ddillenger
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« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2013, 01:18:21 PM »
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Another option would be to put a piece of felt on the ckp and rotate the engine. Mill the spacer down a little at a time until the felt peels off after a revolution. That'll get you as close as possible to the tone ring without interference.
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Please, ask all questions on the forums! Doing so will ensure the next person with the same issue gets the opportunity to learn from your experience!
Email/Google chat:
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julex
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« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2013, 01:23:13 PM »
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Another option would be to put a piece of felt on the ckp and rotate the engine. Mill the spacer down a little at a time until the felt peels off after a revolution. That'll get you as close as possible to the tone ring without interference.
good idea. |
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phila_dot
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« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2013, 02:31:57 PM »
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Did some logging and wanted to report that I was wrong.
B_llrein was set during the entire drive. I suspected it would be after having another look at the code today because once set, B_llrein can only be cleared if B_nmot is clear. From my log, mistt remained zero throughout the entire log (B_llrein was set the whole time - see %STMD) and mill_w + dmllri_w was never <= zero.
Conclusion, dmar != 0 triggers instant torque intervention on ignition angle. B_zwvs is set which clears B_nozwe causing a switch from zwbas to zwsol.
Sorry if I "forgot the basics", but I don't discount anything when troubleshooting. That's how things get overlooked.
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julex
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« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2013, 03:25:17 PM »
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Ok, so the conclusion is that intervention is a result of a perceived bucking of a car which is caused by errorneous rpm signal which Maes it look like rpms are fluctuating around.
I am going to inspect hardware and report back.
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prj
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« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2013, 04:44:57 PM »
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Sorry if I "forgot the basics", but I don't discount anything when troubleshooting. That's how things get overlooked. And I just don't see how various torque related things are going to cause nmot_w to go for a zigzag walk. It is one of the base inputs of the ECU. If it's wrong, any calculation in the ECU relying on it is going to be wrong. I would look at GGDPG and try to find exactly what the problem is. There are a a few flags that get set if a tooth is missed (because the gap is in the wrong spot) and so on. |
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julex
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« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2013, 07:39:07 AM »
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I inspected the alignment of ring in sensor hole and it is as centered as it is possible. The sensor hit the ring once this little 2mm spacer is removed so the distance is right too...
This leaves, I think, the wiring... Which might be damaged since as I mentioned before, I forgot to remove original CPS when separating tranny from engine and as a result the CPS wiring got ripped apart right at the sensor... This certainly had to put tons of pressure on at the connector and the wires behind it though and possibly damage them.
I ordered oscilloscope too. I think I will scope the signal first before I go ahead and rip harness apart though.
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britishturbo
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« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2013, 07:43:14 AM »
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I don't think this is a hardware problem.
People call the Crank Sensor an Engine Speed Sensor but it's not just speed... it's the fundamental timing of the engine. That 60-2 tells the ecu exactly where it is. It's also used for missfire calculations.
If the signal is wrong or inaccurate you would have all sorts of issues.
You would also likely get fault codes for the cam sensor timing. The ECU compares the cam sensors to the crank sensor at all times right?
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julex
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« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2013, 09:15:16 AM »
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I don't think this is a hardware problem.
People call the Crank Sensor an Engine Speed Sensor but it's not just speed... it's the fundamental timing of the engine. That 60-2 tells the ecu exactly where it is. It's also used for missfire calculations.
If the signal is wrong or inaccurate you would have all sorts of issues.
You would also likely get fault codes for the cam sensor timing. The ECU compares the cam sensors to the crank sensor at all times right?
I suspect that teeth miscount would create timing problems and codes for cam shaft position sensor so you might be right. One tooth off on crank would probably throw everything off enough to register a code... But who knows. I just put TMAR to 143 deg for now. I put 530 calc whp down today on my way to work, weee. |
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« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 09:17:16 AM by julex »
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prj
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« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2013, 09:19:04 AM »
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I don't think this is a hardware problem.
People call the Crank Sensor an Engine Speed Sensor but it's not just speed... it's the fundamental timing of the engine. That 60-2 tells the ecu exactly where it is. It's also used for missfire calculations.
If the signal is wrong or inaccurate you would have all sorts of issues.
You would also likely get fault codes for the cam sensor timing. The ECU compares the cam sensors to the crank sensor at all times right? I dont think it will not log anything for one or two teeth missed, it will correct, look at the FR. If it's "not a hardware problem", what are you suggesting then? A bug in ME7? That's pretty bold. Have you looked at GGPDG at all before writing this? Do you know where nmot_w comes from and how it gets calculated? It's really not normal to have a noisy nmot_w. And there are very very few things that affect how nmot_w is set up in the first place in ME7. If it's oscillating like that, it means that either the actual revs are oscillating like that as well, which would indicate pre-ignition, but I think OP's engine would have been melted by now in that case or a problem with the crank trigger pickup. |
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