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Author Topic: The Volvo ME7 thread:  (Read 1079975 times)
dikidera
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« Reply #2385 on: August 05, 2023, 11:53:54 AM »

I need some insight from people more experienced than myself, I managed(or maybe not) to unlock my 140hp 2.4 NA engine to 170hp(Denso ECU) by simply copying the maps from 170hp onto my 140hp S60. As well as any limiters there were. I also wrote my own can logger and this is the result. I believe my MAF readings look a tad bit too low at that RPM range.



Gear ratio 3.00 would imply 2nd gear, but don't quote me on this. In any case, the torque curve for true 170hp(although manual) says 168hp at 6000RPM. I understand estimating HP can be difficult from MAF g/sec, but 121g/sec*1,25 = roughly 150hp, but definitely not 168. I would've expected at least 132-133 grams per second.

Now, I have no idea if this is normal for Denso and the famous magnetti marelli ETM, but Accel pedal at 40% = pretty much 99% open throttle.

The spark advance is likely raw and the retarding compensations are not factored in, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 02:12:06 PM by dikidera » Logged
keichi
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« Reply #2386 on: August 05, 2023, 04:06:02 PM »

Gear ratio 3.00 would imply 2nd gear, but don't quote me on this. In any case, the torque curve for true 170hp(although manual) says 168hp at 6000RPM. I understand estimating HP can be difficult from MAF g/sec, but 121g/sec*1,25 = roughly 150hp, but definitely not 168. I would've expected at least 132-133 grams per second.

Healthy 2.4 170HP peaks around 135g/s. I checked it recently Smiley
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dikidera
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« Reply #2387 on: August 06, 2023, 12:33:52 AM »

At what RPM if you remember? According to the wiki article, 170hp peaks at 168hp at 6000RPM.

There are however a few caveats about my car. I had fiddled with the head(I removed a few rough castings from the valve bowls) but also suspect my catalytic converter is clogged. So if the programming of the ECU is correct(140hp -> 170hp), all that is left is mechanical problems.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 12:37:02 AM by dikidera » Logged
keichi
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« Reply #2388 on: August 06, 2023, 04:11:44 AM »

At what RPM if you remember? According to the wiki article, 170hp peaks at 168hp at 6000RPM.

There are however a few caveats about my car. I had fiddled with the head(I removed a few rough castings from the valve bowls) but also suspect my catalytic converter is clogged. So if the programming of the ECU is correct(140hp -> 170hp), all that is left is mechanical problems.

Peak HP is usually not at the same rpm as peak MAF.

HP = constant * MAF
This common formula for estimating HP is actually real formula from combustion engines theory.
But with one exception that "constant" is not constant but parabola (looking from lowest rpm it's low then goes up - best efficiency somewhere in mid range - and then falls again afterwards until N-max) and defines combustion efficiency and is between around 1.1-1.6. Inverted is around 0.6-0.9.
That is where popular 0.8 divider for MAF->HP estimate comes from Smiley
Combustion efficiency depends on many things like compression ratio, head flow, piston speeds and diameter, ignition, mixture etc.

So simply speaking, if your engine peak HP is at 6000rpm, peak MAF may be little further because it's rpm range where efficiency is falling fast(usually).

I just looked at my primitive OBD data logger and i got peak 135g/s at 96km/h falling to 129g/s at 105km/h (rpm limiter at 2 gear) - it's P1 V50 but it doesn't matter - engine and ECU is the same as yours Smiley
I don't have engine rpm at saved log only GPS speed (you can easilly calculate rpm from that) and MAF because this is some basic demo version app that i randomly use for basic diagnostics.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 04:23:44 AM by keichi » Logged
dikidera
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« Reply #2389 on: August 06, 2023, 11:28:50 AM »

I am again doing a 140/170hp binary diff and there are a few more maps where I opted not to copy anything. I decided to study those maps in detail, but as of yet I can't figure them out.
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tightmopedman9
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« Reply #2390 on: August 08, 2023, 12:08:25 PM »

For the 'openmoose' suite, what is the format for the xml logging file? Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but I've searched through the thread and haven't been able to find any information about it.

An example .xml file would be awesome as well.
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prometey1982
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« Reply #2391 on: August 08, 2023, 07:46:33 PM »

For the 'openmoose' suite, what is the format for the xml logging file? Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but I've searched through the thread and haven't been able to find any information about it.

An example .xml file would be awesome as well.
Here is
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dikidera
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« Reply #2392 on: August 12, 2023, 12:00:36 AM »

I am very happy that I finally have a more coherent understanding of how Denso calculates the CAN IDs(signal configuration) for the streaming data, as well where they are set, and how the ECU chooses what data through which CAN ID it should send it.
The signal configuration, which is how the bit timing params as well as mailbox CAN IDs are stored is a 32-byte structure. The interface for selecting which data goes through what ID is described in a 24 byte structure array, which contains pointers to the main signal configuration, which itself is passed as a pointer such as CANSend_Byte(interface, data), where interface is an offset within the structure array.

All thanks to @rkam of course, in fact it's his little tidbit from over half a year ago which went right over my head that made it possible. In fact he literally spoonfed the information to me.

Now, some people have told me, that these CAN IDs present in the signal configuration could be extrapolated from data from VIDA by using the VIN number. For instance ID 0080401E for me is streaming data such as RPM and Throttle Opening Angle and/or Accelerator pedal position. But this requires a bruteforce approach(sniffing) or studying the assembly to figure out what is being sent there as well as the full reverse engineering of the signal configuration. The VIDA method apparently could already tell you this, according to these people, but I guess I am bit skeptical of that.

Now I am onto the maps, even when I do a binary diff of 140/170hp and see the other maps I didn't copy and find the corresponding code where they are read, there is no information on what those maps do. Very mathy stuff. So even if I copy/paste them, I have no idea what it is they do. This is sort of problematic, because I have some plans and these plans either require me to know exactly what these maps do or go hard on a piggyback ecu.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 12:42:12 AM by dikidera » Logged
prometey1982
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« Reply #2393 on: August 12, 2023, 04:33:49 AM »

I am very happy that I finally have a more coherent understanding of how Denso calculates the CAN IDs(signal configuration) for the streaming data, as well where they are set, and how the ECU chooses what data through which CAN ID it should send it.
The signal configuration, which is how the bit timing params as well as mailbox CAN IDs are stored is a 32-byte structure. The interface for selecting which data goes through what ID is described in a 24 byte structure array, which contains pointers to the main signal configuration, which itself is passed as a pointer such as CANSend_Byte(interface, data), where interface is an offset within the structure array.

All thanks to @rkam of course, in fact it's his little tidbit from over half a year ago which went right over my head that made it possible. In fact he literally spoonfed the information to me.

Now, some people have told me, that these CAN IDs present in the signal configuration could be extrapolated from data from VIDA by using the VIN number. For instance ID 0080401E for me is streaming data such as RPM and Throttle Opening Angle and/or Accelerator pedal position. But this requires a bruteforce approach(sniffing) or studying the assembly to figure out what is being sent there as well as the full reverse engineering of the signal configuration. The VIDA method apparently could already tell you this, according to these people, but I guess I am bit skeptical of that.

Now I am onto the maps, even when I do a binary diff of 140/170hp and see the other maps I didn't copy and find the corresponding code where they are read, there is no information on what those maps do. Very mathy stuff. So even if I copy/paste them, I have no idea what it is they do. This is sort of problematic, because I have some plans and these plans either require me to know exactly what these maps do or go hard on a piggyback ecu.
Why can't you just swap to Bosch ME7 ECM? You spent so much of your time to useless work. NA engines are dead end.
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dikidera
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« Reply #2394 on: August 12, 2023, 10:42:15 AM »

I had almost everything, the wiring harness, the Bosch ECM from 2.5T, but some things happened and I had to abandon the idea and just get the car working as I was out of a car for 5+ months. At that point I simply wanted my car so I can drive again. It was a hellish road paved with good intentions. I also had some personal issues and a family relative's passing.

Plus , I am reverse engineering the NA Denso ECU for fun as well. Additionally knowing how the signal configuration works(though again Denso != Bosch) means that people could better pair various ECM,TCM,BCM,ABS modules by fixing the CAN IDs.

Here is the fun part, I've "unlocked" my car to 168hp, but the MAF is saying 121 grams peak so long ways off, so I missed something clearly. I just don't like it when I leave stuff like this unfinished, it was my original goal.

Then we are going the turbo route. The block will be fine with low boost, I only regret not shimming it, but there are reasons for this. The block slits were varying in width. I had some 0.08mm and some 0.05mm. All the information I had prior to me discovering this, was that they were even width more or less, my cylinder spacings were definitely different for each cylinder.

Another issue there may be which will impede my turbo conversion is the 0.06mm warpage of the block. This is why the final angle torque was 150 degrees on each bolt, rather than 130 as standard.

In any case, I need some more time to get the car in good working order.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 10:46:53 AM by dikidera » Logged
tightmopedman9
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« Reply #2395 on: August 18, 2023, 06:32:25 AM »

Here is
Thanks! I don't have a copy of a 40LRHJ .bin. Just for posterity's sake, would you mind posting one?

Do you happen to have an XML file for 50GPHJ or 50GMHJ?
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SuperMerlin
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« Reply #2396 on: August 25, 2023, 09:06:44 AM »

Somebody have 50WPHG Euro version S60R TF80 XDF file?

XDF from US version uncompatible  Angry
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SuperMerlin
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« Reply #2397 on: August 25, 2023, 09:08:05 AM »

Sorry 50WRHJ
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BaxtR
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« Reply #2398 on: August 26, 2023, 11:37:44 AM »

Sorry 50WRHJ

there is multiple variants of WRHJ unfortunately.. youll have to post a file to make sure you get the correct one.. I dont have anything for WRHJ sorry Sad
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SuperMerlin
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« Reply #2399 on: August 26, 2023, 12:33:57 PM »

Found some XDF. Thanks!
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